I've been told that there is a 3M windshield installation kit available for our cars. Is there a gasket type of material that goes on this, or is it just the glue/caulking type of sealer that holds it in? I'm probably going to have someone who installs windshields regularly stop by and install it, and he's already got the glue/sealer. I need to know if there's anything more that's needed that would be in the installation kit.

if he installs windshields regularly, he will have the kit. it is widely available. it is just a roll of tar/tape and a couple of spacers. you roll the tape out, place the spacers, set the windshield, and then use the caulk.

at least, that's how i did it. the tape comes in 5/16" and 3/8". i think ours is s'posed to use the 5/16". i used the 3/8" on recommendation from a body man.

I'll definitely get all the rust taken care of before it goes in. That was the reason it was taken out. The only place it was being held on anymore was along the top, and that was in pretty rough shape too.

I guess I'll just let the guy show up and see what he has. If I need something more, it won't be a big deal to go get it. I haven't talked with him at all, only my Father-in-Law has. I'm suspecting he's probably only going to show up with a few tools and a caulking gun, but that's based on my opinion of my F-i-L. Hoping I'm wrong.

I did mine myself w my buddys help (who installs them regularly or at least did do them regularly)...he got the 'sticky' stuff only ,no tape, we made the frame nice and clean, then we did 3 'dry runs' by placing it on the clips correctly before we added the sticky stuff (you dont want to move it once its in place, then it could leak), we had one guy on ea side of the car , a heavy blanket on the hood and placed the w/s on it, then you use both hands , one thru the w/s opening on the 'inside of the glass,the other under the 'outside' of the glass ,you hold the w/s w/ one hand on ea side of the glass and you slowly place it, practice to get it 'installed' in the correct place a couple of times, when you feel sure you can get to in w/o moving it once there , use the sticky stuff...

When I went down and got my new w/s I asked the guy for the tape kit and he told me nobody uses that any more. He sold me a 3M primer that you brush on first(tape off the inside edge of the primer line for a nice straight line)then a couple of tubes of caulking type sealer to make the bed. Don't forget the rubber spacers tho because the glass will continue to sink until the stuff sets up. The last one I did was with the tape but that was a long time ago. It was actually easier I thought. Good luck either way.
PS When you go to put the trim back on around the glass be careful not to chip the paint on the edge of the opening because it will start the rust process all over again. Ask me how I know.

Robert

I know this doesn't apply directly but I thought it would be good to know; I recently had a windshield installed in my 69 conv. project. I ordered a new windshield rather than using my old one because of a few scratches. I got a quote off the internet for $150! I called a local place and told them about the quote and they matched it tax included! WOW cheap and they made a house call! The windshield came with all the spacers and sealer already on it. The installer gave me all new clips for the trim and used the special primer on the sealer surface. After the windshield was in place, he used a silicone caulk all the way around the window. He did a great job for an incredible price!
Jim

i did mine almost 10 yrs ago with the tape. i do need to replace my windshield again, due to a vandal, and i was expecting to use the tape again. it acts as a cushion between the metal and glass, and also a spacer, so the glass is not recessed from the chrome. plus it comes with those rubber spacers. i guess if the new windshields come with it already on, it is not needed, but if one doesnt, people dont use it anymore? you just pump caulk on first, and then again afterwards? doesn't seem like much of a cushion.

or Bjorn, your 'sticky stuff' could be the tape i speak of. it is a tar-like ribbon and comes in a roll. it is made by 3m, and is called butyl something or other.

I checked under "discount auto Glass" and found local company that sells the 69 bird w/s (mine is convert)installed for $145...
we opted to install ourselves (to make sure we didnt need to use their warranty in case it leaked) and got it for $135 as we picked it up..

Scott, no we didnt get 'tape', its was caulk looking black sticky stuff out of a tube , we use a caulking gun to install it...used 1.25 tubes...and that stuff was expensive...
like +_ $20 for the two tubes..

Bjorn,
So you spent more so you could NOT get the warrantee?($135+$20) I must be missing something?
Jim

Yes Jim , I did.....
sounds weird I know , but I did install it so it wouldt NOT leak...if they did and it leaked we might be going back and forth...
we did on my sons Tahoe...w/s got cracked , we took it to the glass people, they installed new,it leaked , they warrantied it, they finally installed 3 windshields before they got it right...and at installation no 2 they ruined the head liner (smeared all that black gook on it), they eventually replaced it too under warranty...the job got done , but they used lots of time while we had no access to the car...
So ther`s a reason I wasnt to eager to have the warranty....lol

I understand now. I got really lucky to get a great installer. If I had the experiences you had they would not have got there gooky fingers on my convertible either!
Jim

You beat me to the post. I will be putting in my W/s too this comming weekend. Good tip on putting the clips in first. I think I will consult my body man to see if he recomends the 3M seal tape or the caulk tube.

Can someone tell me what hold the wind sheild up in place? I think my convt 68 bird had some plastic blocks held in with sheetmetal screws at the base of the glass. Is this needed are is the job of the chrome trim on the cowel panel? One more thing should the tape go on the glass first or the metal frame?

There are 2 metal small L shaped clips ,one at ea end that hold the w/s up in place...they are held to the body w sheet metal screws....
we put the 'gook' on the body , stuck w/s to it, press in place ....this was after we had our 3 'dry runs' w/o the sticky stuff...

when i did mine with the tape, i put it on the metal surface. i put all the molding clips in first, and put the 2 little rubber spacers which come with the tape on top of the L-brackets. after putting the windshield in place, i went around with the caulk. this was all with the help of a friend who worked in a body shop. we pushed in on the windshield for a while before using the caulk.

IIRC, the rear window has no brackets to hold the glass up, so you really need the little rubber spacers if you do the rear window. we had them for the front, so we used them.

Bojrn is right! Install it yourself so it does'nt leak. As a collective group, glassmen are a sorry lot. Sorry to offend the 1% who installs correctly, but I have to call it like it is. (Oh, by the way, the w/s doesn't already come with a seal. If the w/s already had a kit on it, it was put on just before the glassman left the shop. I don't know why the hell some guys install the kit at the shop, but some of them do. Then again, I don't know why professionals cannot install a w-688 without assistance, but many of them need help setting the w/s into place.)

Rohrt: It depends on the age of your bodyman, whether or not is information is "current." A younger guy may fail to consider that f/g's do not have ingergral glass, whereby the glass acts as part of the structural integrity of the car.

Starting in 1982 ALL GM CARS have used the windsheild as part of the cars' frame. This the reason why it's important to install windsheilds with URETHANE ONLY AND NO BUTAL. Bozo glassmen couldn't fathom the concept of glass being part of the car's frame, and it took until the late 90's for them to catch on that butal-set w/s were a death trap wating to happen.

Starting in 1986 & 1/2, all vechiles used srtuctural glass, and it was a good decision on the manafacture's behalf. For instance, the 86 % 1/2 (aka 87) full size Ford truck maintained the same chassis/block as its 86 predessor. The intergrated glass, however, allowed an 18 pound reduction in the weight of the body. Best of all, the additional rollover strenght was an exponential amount. I don't recall the number, but it may have been 200 to 300% increase in chassis strentht.

The point of the diatrbe is that f/g bodies have flex. Therefore, urethane isn't the best choice for w/s, b/g installation. Urethane is fairly rigid, and the long term results is that it can break away from the body. Also, regardless to time frame, it can also cause the w/s to stress crack because body flex can be transmitted to the glass.

Butal, a pliable substance allows the body to exibit its natural flex. Simply, it's the best choice of installation of w/s and b/g in f/g cars.

The reason why it's getting hard to find butal is that--starting way back in 1982--federal law has prohibited ANY BUTAL useage in urethane installed glass.

I was a poineer and advocate in no butal in urethane glass installation, and it makes me ugly to think about one installing butal when it should be installed in urethane. The thing is that I was around during the conversion, and you repair as the manafacture intended. (If you want to get real technical, f/g's weren't installed in butal from the factory. I forget what the stuff was called, but it was a hard type of pukey. Even so, it has much more flex than that of urethane. Also, the more fussy people *****ed about replacments because it wasn't exactly like factory.)

A little about butal. NAGS (National Auto Glass Association) recomended 5/16 th's butal kit. That speck has stood since the first day of f/g's. The reason for the 5/16 th kit was that when the speck was set, w/s's were much thicker. If you look at an origional w/s, and compare it to a replacement w/s, you'll notice quite a differece in the thickness.

It was before I got into the automative industry (1979) when manafactures reduced the thickness of earlier w/s. I don't keep track of everyghing so I don't know if the problem has been compensated for, but one problem with the downsise was in rubber gasket w/s. The problem was that the replacemtn w/s flopped around in the gasket. To compund problems, replacment rubber gasket were made for the thicker glass. But they didn't make the thicker glass--duh!

Anyway, because it's not one of those thick, origional glasses, the 5/16th's kit will cause the w/s to sit a little low. As a result, the chrome will stand a little high. The 3/8th's kit will make the chrome sit tighter to the glass. Sometimes, the chrome will be a little tight. If you have problems snapping a clip, DON"T HAMMER IT WITH YOUR HAND! Rather use firm steady pressure to clip it. If that doesn't work, use a narrow, stout strip of wood as a cushion. Lay it on the chrome, and strike the wood with gentle, but sharp tap from a hammer.

(Back glasses are more receptive to a 5/16 kit. However, I also use a 3/8.)

More on butal: Use 3M brand, and get the round, not square, kit. 2 brands you want to leave on the shelf are CRL (C. R. Laurence) and PTI. Both butals string exessivly when removed. (Ever had the stuff string when removing it? You can rest assured that it's probally one of those brands.) In addition to the major mess, CRL has poor consistancy, and it will loose its height. In other words, it will eventually squish, allowing the w/s to sink in the pinchweld.

About windsheilds: Some of the board's most knowledgble guys can probally help you better sort this out, but f/g cars used 2 makes of glass. They are LOF and PPG. Ima' firm beliver that GM uses whatever it has laying around the factory as "factory correct," but the difference could be what plant the car came from. My 9 has PPG glass, and I replaced my orgional windshild with a PPG brand.

Stay away from Safelite (LSI) Gurdain, Pinkeltonm, and other bastard glasses. In addition to being incorrect manafactures, these glasses are known to be ill fitting replacments.

One brand that is a quality w/s isn't a correct logo, and it's made by the 4-letter-word-company. Carlite makes an expetional w/s, and the fit is exact. I hate to say it, but it's probally a better quality w/s than that of LOF and PPG: The tint--the overall coloring in the glass--seems to provide better day/night glare reduction.

I bought my PPG a shaded version to replace a tinted w/s in 1985, and the shade is quite skimpy. In fact, it's pretty much a joke as far as the defintion of a shaded w/s. (They may have improved through the years.) The Carlite shade, however, is a generous band, and it's quite dark.

One more thing, and I'm out of here. It's dealer's choice whether or not the kit is placed on the body or the glass. It has been my experaince that you get a better seal, and a better looking installation, if the kit is put on the body.

When you put it on the body, it makes postive contact with the body. Water runs downhill, so against the body is the more critical seal area. Not that you want any voids, but it's possible to have an air gap between the glass and the seal, and still not have a water leak. (It 'dont work that way if you have an air gap between the body and the seal.)

Also you get a better looking installation when the kit is placed on the body. When you install the kit on the glass, you may end up with a notiable gap behind the top/side garnish mouldings. When you place it on the body, you can maintain an exact position. For an ultra clean looking instlation, have the top/side garnish mouldings in place. Run the kit with just a nano-hair gap from the garnish mouldings.

Oh yeah, it's good advice to practice a couple of dry sets: One tip to help the ease of the installation would be to place the top of the w/s first. Because of difference between the top and bottom curves of the w/s, it's eaiser to judge the postion as you come down with the glass. (Make sure that you are above the stops.)

When you set the top first, the flatter area allows you fairly accurate positioning when the glass bites the butal. When you place the bottom first, sharper curve makes it so the glass has already bit the butal, but you have no way to guage the postion of the glass.

Wow thats a indepth report. Thanks.

I talked to my body man last night and he said the same thing you did about the Urathan being a stength member for the car. I also got a 3M window kit with the 3/8 roll. I found my metal L shaped brackets that hold the W/S in place. So now I just need to get the right clips to put back in the window frame and a nice hot day to do the work.

If you need a good hot day to do it , just hop in and drive here....the heat index is at 103 today....

Armervo, I read your post here and went out and bought the butal tape, however when i purchased it i could not remember if it were 5/16th's or 3/8'ths , i see now that you recommended the 3/8's. Well i bought the 5/16th's. When i looked at the butal tapes i noticed they sold flat as well as rounded butal butal tapes in 3/8 th's. What is the difference,application wise and which should a firstgenner use to replace their windshield?Also, i just got the tape,not the kit so no spacers.What thickness should a spacer be and where do i place the spacers? I have mine out now,rust repaired,painted and ready to install the new glass. Anyone else have any other opinions on this? P.s. If any of my American Bird friends need any butal tape (if you can't find it) let me know and i can ship some down for you.Thanks...
David.

So i put the winshield in by myself last night,thank goodness i have long arms I ended up using the 5/16 butal tape. Window looks good but it does seem to sit low from the trim.I was contemplating taking it out again and starting over using 3/8 tape(should of used it in the first place!) but now i'm scared to take it out.Should i just live with it and put some caulking in around the butal or just leave it alone.The car is just a driver but will look nice.The windshield sitting lower doesn't bother me so much, i just don't want tons of water getting in there now. Overall it looks great,just now the little things are starting to annoy me! Any suggestions?

David.

if you think it will bother you everytime you see it, you should pull it up and redo it before you caulk it. if you already caulked it, i'm sure no one will really notice it except you.

i wouldn't worry about water getting in between chrome and glass. it will get in there just the same no matter how close the glass is to it. my glass/chrome fit is really tight with the 3/8" tape. it actually sat maybe too high at first, but water and pine needles still get in.

the reason i said to redo it if it bugs you, is, there will always be some imperfection somewhere in the car, and chances are, you will be the only one who sees it, but it will still be really annoying. if it is something you have to look at all the time, you will always wish you redid it.

i always see horrible things in my car, but people say it looks nice. if someone points out a problem to me, they better be willing to fix it for me.

Thanks Scott. It bugs me only because when i initially started to redo the car it was just gonna be new paint and a new roof. Boy did that ever snowball! All my other parts on the car were absolutely fine for a driver,i just started justifying all the new parts i have been buying as the old ones would stick out like a sore thumb. I guess i just want the nicest firebird that i can afford at this time. I rose my car from the dead, so it has many imperfections, however it is my bird and your right,if someone says something should be fixed, they should fix it. The windshield is fine, however it is my striving for the best possible job that i can do with my labour and limited funds that is making me prolong the flight of my bird once again, little things like the windshield being a tad low,etc... I was planning on having it ready for first week of august, now my pickiness is saying next spring.Thanks
David