Hello from a new member.
I hope someone can shed some light towards my recently purchased 69 coupe. It seems the previous owner has placed a 454 in that was running when picked up. Trailered home and started about three times.

With the different engine the owner had installed perhaps a HEI (me not knowing much about elect), and said this was req'd because of the difference between Pontiac and Chev. In addition he has added a switch that must be on prior to turning the key...I have traced this switch that is fed from the battery and the second red wire goes to the (distributer) or MSD or HEI.. whichever the big red distributor looking item is.
The car currently will not even turn over. I thought perhaps it seized and I removed the fan and was able to rotate the crank about a half of turn... So I suspect electrical.
Would I have to look at the starter? if so how can it be tested without removal? Or is it the distributor HEI as I have heard of? He has one that is smaller and made of billet in the trunk, but I suspect he changed this out for the reasons mentioned above.

Any accurate direction would be greatly helpful.
Thanks in advance.
BrntSpro

sounds like a kill switch problem? can you run a direct wire from starter to battery?

Welcome to the site. Where are you in this great country of ours?

Greetings. Starting with an unfamiliar car that has been "hacked" poses some difficulty. Stick with it, and you'll get help to get you through the process.

An HEI distributor is NEVER required. That said, it's in the car, and you know it DID run. If the engine doesn't crank, it has nothing to do with the distributor, so let's skip that topic for now. The kill switch should also not contribute to a starting issue, since it's wired directly to the distributor.

First step is to test the battery for 12.6v or higher from positive to negative, and that you've also checked from battery positive to a bolt on the cylinder head or other location on the engine to be sure power is available.

Next step is to examine the starter cable from the battery to the starter. Look for signs of arcing to ground, bad insulation, corrosion, loose clamps/bolts or other visual items. Then check the ground cable in the same fashion.

Turn on the headlights and turn the key. Do the lights stay on bright, dim a lot, or go out?

While in the driver's seat, rotate the cover of the steering column while turning the key. Rotate first counterclockwise, then clockwise. The collar on many modified cars is not locked down and can keep the safety interlock from working properly. If at any time you hear the starter try to crank, your problem is here.

Next check your shifter. Be sure it is fully engaged in Park before starting; to test the neutral safety switch, try placing the shift lever in each gear position (foot on the brake) while trying to start. If at any time you hear the starter try to crank, your problem is here.

A less common problem is a stuck starter pinion. This can happen if the car backfired or dieseled at shutdown. To remedy, disconnect the negative battery cable, and using a tire iron or wide screwdriver, rotate the ring gear from beneath the car back and forth a tooth or two. If you hear the starter gear retract, it was stuck. If it happens again, you may have a weak starter.

Try your heater blower motor. It should be able to be turned on in the ON key position. If not, you may have an ignition switch problem. To test the ignition switch "start" position, you will need to use a test light from the starter solenoid S terminal to ground.

If you have a console shift auto and still have no success, you can remove your console for access to the neutral safety switch. It's two big fat purple wires. Make a jumper wire of the same gauge and jumper the harness coming from the dash. Try your key again. At this point, you are just listening for any sound of life from the starter. If you still have none, your starter or starter solenoid may have failed.

Vikki, I had a kill switch that went bad...and car wouldnt start....a new one fixed that problem..

B, the way this kill switch is said to be wired, I'd think the engine should still turn over, just not fire

Thanks to all that have taken interest and responded.

I appreciate the direction.
Liam - I am located just outside of Edmonton Alberta.
Bjorn & BB - The kill switch when on or off did permit the engine to turn just not fire (previously), as pointed out by BB. Thanks to you both.

Yellowbird - you have given me some home work. I shall get started at least, upon your instructions today.
The headlight portion of your reply cannot be completed (former owner did complete and ground the harness for the lights). Your other points including the Neutral safety switch sounds interesting. The car has the column shift still and a B&M Ratchet shifter (which takes a bit of getting used to). I will work my way down your list.

Point of interest - As you mentioned the Diesel down of the engine did somewhat take place for the engine had seemed to have just not so much as dieseled but lost power and sputtered, even as more fuel was applied....and then sat in silence.

It is poor timing on my part today for the car was to go in for a bit of exterior feather replacement.
Thanks again to you all and I will get back soon.

ok, my kill switch was a wiggle switch ....so if it broke ,no connection...

By your description, test your primary electrical first. If you have courtesy lamps under the dash or a working clock, you can use them to monitor whether or not you have power. Be sure your column shift is in neutral, as park will lock the column. It may have shifted to drive or reverse, which will prevent starting but will not have caused the engine to stop running.

I'd suspect a problem in the battery or battery cables. Start your testing with a fully charged battery.

Vikki;
With the batt fully charged I had 12.68V across the posts with same from Pos to cyl. head bolt.

Next I examined the starter cable from batt to starter including bolts etc. All good and insulation as well. The neg. cable is appears new and is without damage.

Headlights not terminated as mentioned.

Shifter - in park and thru each position to test neutral safety switch (no change).
Note: Column position also tested with every combination possible between the shifter and column less the Divinci Code!

Ring gear....not visible because of headers. Perhaps to be checked when transported to shop for quarter work.

Heater blower mtr no response (if it is even connected. The individual disconnected the heater hoses so...)
The S terminal you spoke of is it the one that has a red wire that goes from the solenoid back up to the engine bay harness and bulkhead?

And lastly no console with purple wires as you had mentioned.

Owe but I could sit in it and light a smoke! the lighter works as do the wipers. But I do not smoke and it's not raining at the moment.

I remeber years ago you could lay a screw driver across the solenoid to at least have the engine crank. Would this cause more harm or is it worth a shot?

If you are just outside Edmonton, would you be in Leduc ? I have a niece who lives there.

Close Liam.
Actually just outside of Tofield.
About 1/2 hour outside Leduc as you probably know.
You have got the correct direction however.

Pleased to almost meet you Liam.

It would be very difficult to safely jumper a GM starter solenoid with a screwdriver, especially with headers.

Does your battery cable (thick lead) run directly to the starter, or possibly to a remote solenoid on the firewall or fenderwell? With a remote solenoid, it's easy to jumper. If not, you can buy a simple remote starter switch which connects from the fat cable to the S terminal for remote cranking.

If you have wipers and cigar lighter, you've established that you have primary electrical. If you can buy, beg, borrow or build a remote starter switch, you can test your starter solenoid and ignition switch easily.

Vikki;
The batt cable does run directly to the starter.
Without success the car just left with the bodyman, who will have the time to diagnose further. He seems quite sure it is a solenoid or starter itself.

Thanks I will speak to him this week and see if that was the case after all.

BTW nice car you have.

When you get it back, have a freind turn the key while you connect a volt meter to the smaller wire on the solenoid. It should show Batt voltage when the key is in the crank position. If you have Batt voltage at the small wire while in crank position check for voltage at the positive cable at the starter (key off). It should be same as battery voltage, but if within a couple tenths the car should crank. So if voltage is near battery voltage at both terminals I would take the starter in to be tested. If it is not the same as battery voltage start cleaning ground connections. Very often people neglect to attach the ground cables from the cylinder heads to the firewall. I have seen cars fail to crank just because of a missing or poor ground. Make sure the engine is grounded to the chassis firewall etc. This could be done with your ohm meter one lead to the neg. battery post and the other at the engine firewall etc. (bare metal) The readings should be near 0 resistance. If no voltage at the small wire you will need to work backward testing all of the circuits involved with the ignition circuit. I had a 68 many years ago and often had to do the screwdrive trick, as the headers heated up the starter it can be done but it is a bit tricky. Good luck. I would be more than happy to walk you through send me an e-mail and I will give you my number.
tonydrcnut@sbcglobal.net

Thanks Tony
I will take action on this once received, or discuss with the bodyman.
I had wondered why the ground strap showed no signs of being used...It appears to have not been connected to the F/W ever. I will forward this info to help resolve while in his hands. It will be some time but I will let you know how it went.

I will give you a shout when this info is acted upon.

Thanks again.

Is the HEI getting 12 volts from somewhere. My car had an HEI in it when I purchased it but the wiring was pretty hacked up. It now has a new engine harness made for HEI and 12 volts is coming directly off the starter. Just my 2 cents.

Interesting Pete.
I had not checked that. Tell me more of the voltage the you did have prior to the new harness. And what/where did you get your wiring harness?
Thanks

M&H Electric (wiringharness.com) sells harnesses made to order for whatever configuration you may want. Awesome quality, perfect fit.

You said your distributor has a wire from the battery to the switch to the distributor. That's a nominal 12v supply to HEI, and is completely separate from any cranking issue.

I had recently spoke with the fellow that has my car and he said he suspects the starter which he will change out to know for certain.

He mentioned also that because the engine was not firing and I was trying over and over to start it (prior to the engine NOT turning over), that perhaps a float or something was stuck on the carb which had dumped fuel to the engine to the point that the pan had fuel in it (alot of fuel).

I suspect I will know for sure this weekend about the starter.

BTW perhaps this belongs in a separate posting but... Whom has the better body panels for a 69 coupe.. YEAR ONE or Classic Industries? Is there a better supplier for panels?

I will be having the fenders replace as well as quarters etc.
Any Opinions?

Its a general question and not specific to parts category for posting purposes.

Comments?

Yellowbird thanks for the addy I will look into the harnes because the existing one has a few header modified conductors.
Thanks

Thanks all. It seemed to be a couple of issues, but mainly the starter.