Hello All, I just replaced the 67 I had in high school with a 68 and have been looking at 1st Gen resources. I found the car on craig's list. The car had a 400 hood, 455 and 4speed. The seller is a Mopar man and didn't know if it was an original 400 or not; which didn't really matter to me because all I was looking for a driver with a manual.
When I went to look at the car it had the correct 400 badging, bumper, grill and hood. The interior is deluxe black with the split front bench seat (I had never seen this before with a manual.) The first thing I noticed was the hood scoops were open. When I popped the hood it had the ram air pan! Interesting I thought someone transplanted a hood. The engine had a cheap aftermarket chrome air cleaner on it. The seller says “there is part of the original air cleaner in the trunk.” Turns out it is the ram air carb base! Closer inspection of the 455 revealed it had long branch exhaust manifolds.
The body was in the condition the seller described on the phone so I paid him our agreed price and started the 300 mile drive home. Car ran beautifully, never missed a beat and everything worked on it except the heater and the stereo. I had a couple hours to think about my purchase and I decided someone threw a bunch of rare parts at a base Firebird. It did have a bench seat and 4 wheel drum brakes after all.
That was two weeks ago, today I got my PHS documentation…. Ram Air I. My wife couldn’t figure out why my jaw hit the floor. This blind squirrel just got his nut.
Plans for the car have definitely changed and I’m going to need all the help I can get. I’ll be posting up in the parts wanted section.
Wow, congratulations Al, what a Bonus to an already nice deal (anytime you buy a Firebird it's nice) But to be able to find one with a pedigree... That is a Sweet deal!
Keep us posted & post pix if and when you can!
I'm sure many will tell you to do this or do that or only go 100% original... but always keep in mind it's your car, build it your way and or how you would have ordered it... most of all enjoy it!
I can relate a bit. After spending 12 years restomoding my original '67 400, I found out a couple of weeks ago it was one of 1200 built for California with the smog parts.
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
"build it your way and or how you would have ordered it"
With maybe the exception of the bench seat and drum brakes it is exactly how I would have ordered it had I not been 1 yr old at the time! I love old cars and am a big fan of history so it would be nice to be able to restore it back to original and let other people see the car as it came from the factory. The bench seat has grown on me by the way. Of course the hardest part will be finding the correct WI code engine. The second hardest thing will be coming up with the money to pay for it. Hopefully I can get it up in the air this weekend to decode the trans and rear end. The way it drove on the highway I'm guessing they are original. Even if I do restore it 100% the car will be driven at least 6 months out of the year. I'll just have to put off finding a car for track days.
"You must've been really happy"
Even though I froze my hands to the steering wheel, I think I was happier on the drive back than when I got the PHS docs. With the exception of being alot faster it drove and even smelled like my '67. The ram air is the icing on what is already a sweet cake.
"how much did you pay for it"
I didn't want to come off sounding like a jerk so I didn't post the price. The seller gave me his bottom price before we drove down to look at the car and that's all the cash I took with me and quite frankly it is about all I could afford to spend. So I don't think there would be a problem with saying what I paid. $5500.
Just got back from a nice drive in the '67 (with the top down)
Never thought I could do that in Nov in MN. It's 69 degrees and sunny here!
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure. I feel like I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe. 1968 400 convertible (Scarlet) 1976 T/A - 455 LE (No Burt) 1976 T/A New baby, starting full restoration. 1968 350 - 4 speed 'vert - 400 clone (the Beast!) 1968 350 convertible - Wife's car now- 400 clone (Aleutian Blue) (Blue Angel) 2008 Durango - DD 2008 GXP - New one from NH is AWESOME! 2017 Durango Citadel - Modern is nice! HEMI is amazing! 1998 Silverado Z71 - Father-daughter project 1968 400 coupe - R/A clone (Blue Pearl) (sold) 1967 326 convertible - Sold 1980 T/A SE Bandit - Sold
Interior Custom Option Strato-bench Seat with Center Armrest 269 - Black
Due to the differences in computer screens and color swatches I've had a hard time determining how dark Aegena blue is. Depending on the lighting the car looks like it is dark blue to a low gloss black.
I can't believe there were too many car models out there where the bench seat was an extra cost option!
It is absolutely gorgeous out, I'm taking the car out right now. These are the days it makes living in the Midwest worthwhile. I was stationed in California when I was in the Army and the Autum is the season I missed the most.
Thanks for all the kind words, I think the wife is starting to understand.
But I've NEVER seen a bench seat with a floor shift. Do you have the PHS docs for it? If not, get those asap!! If you have a RA 1 with a bench and manual trans from the factory, then it's a very rare car indeed. And for $5500.00?
I also hate you.
Mark
68 Firebird 350 auto (sold) 70 Trans Am RAIII 400 4-speed (sold) 2011 Challenger SRT8 IE392 6-speed (sold) 2017 Challenger Hellcat 1966 Dodge Coronet 440
Mark, 1 of 1200? How did you find out this info? I still have most of the original Smog parts (Pump, brackets, hoses etc) that came with my 67 California car. I'd like to hear more sometime if you get a chance? You can PM me if you want?
"I can relate a bit. After spending 12 years restomoding my original '67 400, I found out a couple of weeks ago it was one of 1200 built for California with the smog parts."
See, you can learn all kinds things about your car even years later. So keep tracking down more info and love the pix. RA 1's are harder and harder to find!
But I've NEVER seen a bench seat with a floor shift. Do you have the PHS docs for it? If not, get those asap!! If you have a RA 1 with a bench and manual trans from the factory, then it's a very rare car indeed. And for $5500.00?
I also hate you.
I sent away for the PHS docs the day after I got the car. I wanted to make sure I had a base car before I started moding it. I found out it was a RAI when I got the docs back. According to the PHS it is as it left the factory with the exception of the paint and missing engine.
Here's a an underhood pic with the carb pan that was in the trunk.
But I've NEVER seen a bench seat with a floor shift. Do you have the PHS docs for it? If not, get those asap!! If you have a RA 1 with a bench and manual trans from the factory, then it's a very rare car indeed. And for $5500.00?
I also hate you.
I sent away for the PHS docs the day after I got the car. I wanted to make sure I had a base car before I started moding it. I found out it was a RAI when I got the docs back. According to the PHS it is as it left the factory with the exception of the paint and missing engine.
Here's a an underhood pic with the carb pan that was in the trunk.
Al,
The PHS docs state the car left the factory with a bench seat and manual trans?
Mark
68 Firebird 350 auto (sold) 70 Trans Am RAIII 400 4-speed (sold) 2011 Challenger SRT8 IE392 6-speed (sold) 2017 Challenger Hellcat 1966 Dodge Coronet 440
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure. I feel like I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe. 1968 400 convertible (Scarlet) 1976 T/A - 455 LE (No Burt) 1976 T/A New baby, starting full restoration. 1968 350 - 4 speed 'vert - 400 clone (the Beast!) 1968 350 convertible - Wife's car now- 400 clone (Aleutian Blue) (Blue Angel) 2008 Durango - DD 2008 GXP - New one from NH is AWESOME! 2017 Durango Citadel - Modern is nice! HEMI is amazing! 1998 Silverado Z71 - Father-daughter project 1968 400 coupe - R/A clone (Blue Pearl) (sold) 1967 326 convertible - Sold 1980 T/A SE Bandit - Sold
What a great find! Where did the PHS report say the car was originally sold. Was it always a northern car? Anyway, we are not that far from you so maybe we'll met on the road some day.
2) how come nobody here spotted it on Craigslist?!
You've just hit upon one of the reasons I was reluctant to post what I paid for the car in the first place. I didn't want anyone to think the guy was an idiot, he just wasn't knowledgeable in Pontiacs, (he stated his interest was in Mopars.) The other reasons are; I didn’t want anyone to think I was taking advantage of someone and I didn’t want to come across as bragging. I’ve owned a 67 and a 72 in the past and I fancy myself pretty knowledgeable in the world of cars but I don’t know of any means to verify if a car is a true 400 let alone a Ram Air car without documentation. There were clues there but how many cloned Firebird 400s and Ram Airs are out there now? (I am not knocking clones, its the closest way I would ever be able to come to owning a 69 TA.) I’ve used PHS in the past so I was familiar with that process, he unfortunately was not. I feel a twinge of guilt but that is tempered by the fact that I will be spending a ship load of money restoring this car and not just in the engine bay. So it comes down to the fact that we both thought it was a fair deal given the condition of the car, lack of correct engine and questions about its pedigree.
As for your second question; I think it was only listed in the Madison WI area Craig’s list and not for very long.
If it hasn’t been mentioned here before, Craig’s Pal allows you to search multiple lists.
Where did the PHS report say the car was originally sold.
In the Charge To section of the billing history it say zone 11 dealer 143. The Ship To zone and dealer are blank???
I am trying to back track through the previous owners now to get some history on the car... Does anyone know if its possible to get a title history through the Wisconsin DMV?
Nice car..Nice find..Keep in mind that after you spend "a ship load" of money restoring that car that it will only bring you X for the car.........X being less then a high quaility restoration will cost you, even if you did the total restoration yourself in todays market that car Correctley restored will not bring you more then 35-40K and that would be pushing hard to find the right buyer at that price range......If it had all correct #'s matching as it had FROM the factory, it would only bring in the 50K range (again professional restoration)....So if you tally up what a 1967 RA engine will cost you then the cost of rebuilding it there alone you have a good 18-20K then rebuild and paint then platting then the cost of parts tehn the price of the car then, then , then, then you will see that the total cost to do that car the correct way (as it should be done) will cost more then the value it will bring..Also as a high end Mopar collector, we do know the value of high end Pontiacs...Can you post a copy of the PHS?...It would be nice to see it.
Thanks for the info Vikki. I talked to PHS this morning and dealer 143 was/is? Dagnon Motors in Stevens Point, WI.
What’s the old adage “come up with a budget for time and money, then triple it?”
Would I like to take this car back to its original state? You bet. Is it realistic for me? Probably not. Would I have fun trying? Definitely. I’ve been struggling with what to do with this car since I found out what it is. My father and several others have suggested that I flip it. I would consider that but I would hate to see it go to a collector’s private stash or someone else doing a Foose on it. Other than cars that get passed down through families how often does an average Joe get a chance to own a rare car nowadays? In my hands this car will be as correct as I can make it, it will never be a 100% correct museum piece.
Fortunately several of my friends are in the automotive industry so I’ll get a lot of help on the body restoration. The RA hopefully will come in time, who knows I’ve been lucky so far.
I’ll want to blank out the serial number of the VIN but I don’t mind posting the PHS.
Dagnon Motors Inc 325 E Blackhawk Ave Prairie Du Chien, WI 53821 (608) 326-6491
Enjoy your car. Having 100% correct parts may increase its value from a collector's viewpoint, but not from a driving/enjoyment perspective. I have a 100% matching car and sometimes wish I did not so that I would not be so hesitant to make changes.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
When I posted to you what I was saying is..A car like that should be brought back to as close and as nice as it can be when it left the factory......You stated you were going to put a "ship load of money in it".....I just wanted to let you know that the car is not only collectable but a nice one as well....After viewing your one picture, I noticed that somone "slid" a peice of sheet metal between the frame of the hood to cover the hole where the hood tack belongs...I then thought..Who would do that to a nice car?..another hard to find item would be the original master cyl....I suggest that you do the car the right way or do not restore it at all and drive it as is...Just my 2 cents.
..A car like that should be brought back to as close and as nice as it can be when it left the factory..
I didn't see you in any rush to change your RAII equipped RAI back to the way it was when it left the factory.
Originally Posted By 67 Firebird 400
..I suggest that you do the car the right way or do not restore it at all and drive it as is...
You got it. Don't do anything irreversible. If you make changes, think toward eventual restoration. That does not mean you cannot or should not make changes, just think first. The car is already a few steps from original (exterior mirrors, engine) but all easily reversible.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Vikki You are right....I did not change anything on my RAII /RAI car and I did as I told him....I drove it, enjoyed it and sold it...As I knew the cost of restoring it the proper way would be more then the value of the car.....And I sold it for 4 times what I paid for it
Originally Posted By Yellowbird
Originally Posted By 67 Firebird 400
..A car like that should be brought back to as close and as nice as it can be when it left the factory..
I didn't see you in any rush to change your RAII equipped RAI back to the way it was when it left the factory.
Originally Posted By 67 Firebird 400
..I suggest that you do the car the right way or do not restore it at all and drive it as is...
You got it. Don't do anything irreversible. If you make changes, think toward eventual restoration. That does not mean you cannot or should not make changes, just think first. The car is already a few steps from original (exterior mirrors, engine) but all easily reversible.