Banshee,
I emailed you a couple of days ago about my 455HO.
Will you, and a few other Guru's out there tell me a little bit more about what I have, compared to other blocks like SD's, 421's, 428's? Why is a 455HO, or these types of motors highly sought after? I have a WA block, the numbers with it are 0271166. What do these #'s represent?
Also, I have a Munsy 4sp Trans. The #'s on it are stamped: 5K-108552, and then US Pat.#-3088336 GM CORP.
By these #'s ,can you tell me if this tranny is an M-21, or M-22?, and what did it originally come out of?

After my last many discussions with a few of you on what my 67 Bird was all about,and some further investigating in on the guy who did my motor, I'm starting to have my doubt's of how legit he really is. Any information provided would be greatly appreciated.

He might be looking up the wrong end of the trans ... it's usually the input shaft that's got the ring grooves on it.

One more thought on the 1970 455 HO. It was a one-year-only motor, so finding the heads is a little tough. It was also not put into the Firebird, to the best of my knowledge. I wish I had the Firebird supplement to my 1970 manual.

I recall that there was a Formula 455 available in 1971 and 1972, but I am not sure if it was available in 1970. Also, the T/A in 1970 only came with a Ram Air 3 or Ram Air 4 motor (both 400 CID) not a 455 HO. That motor was the standard T/A engine in 1971 and 1972, and those 455 HO motors were the round-port type.

That would make the 455 HO from 1970 a GTO and GP only motor, which makes it harder to come by, but - as Tom said - not necessarilly the most sought after.

Q

I read an article in the june 97' HPP where six 71' lemans non sport had the 455HO engine as well as the lemans sport and GT-37. In the October 98' HPP they have listings for the 455, from 70'-76'.Listed for 1970: 455 :GP,Catalina,Bonneville,Executive
455HO : GP,Catalina,Bonneville,Executive,GTO
For 1971: 455:Bonneville,Catalina,Grand Safari,Grandville,GP SJ,GP,Formula,GTO
455HO:GTO Judge,Trans am,GTO,Formula,T37
For 1972: 455:Bonneville,GrandVille,GP SJ,GP,Lemans,GTO,Catalina,CatalinaSafari
455HO:Trans am,Formula,GTO,LemansGT

Quenton, just for interest I checked my Firebird parts catalogue and there are no 455 parts listed for 1970; as you suspected, they start in 1971 (kinda fun checking part numbers for 455 SD's).

You talking to me! High Performance Pontiac magazine did many articles on the 455 and 455HO. I just pulled out the issue's listed in my post above and quoted what they had in print. Canadian's rarely mess things up At least that's what i will tell you. OOPS! You were talking to someone else. (i was talking to myself again.)

No conflict really, just alot of BS. If I new about this site before I let this guy tear into my stuff, I would have taken another route, and saved a few extra bucks is all.
There is an odd sound in my motor, so we pulled it out. I haven't opened it up yet (almost afraid to), so I"ll get those #'s off my trans, and block as you suggested, and get back to you.
Thanks for the info on the Muncie. WOW!, talk about a crash course!

Tom, you are right, of course. I was thinking specifically of the 1970 D-port 455 HO. And the statement about the heads is also right on the money. The round port 455 HO heads still command a much higher prices than the #64, but the price of #64 heads has doubled in the last two years.

Sorry to be nit-picky, Tom. It's just a job hazard around here.

TOHcan - thanks for the support.

Q

Hey guys,
I have a 1970 GP with block code XF and #64 heads and Tom's told me it was an HO motor. Is it a d-port motor??
Thanks,
Ray

I'm not where I can get to my motor until next week. However, I found some paperwork on my Muncie. The #'s you asked me for are: P0806, these #'s are on the Pass. side main case. The #'s 3857584GM are found on the pass. side, rear of shaft. I, of course, am not able to open it up, but the output shaft has 27 teeth. There's also a set of #'s on the drivers side cover of the main case, where the linkage ties into. They read 3884685. Does this help any? I matched this up with the info you sent me, and as far as I can tell without opening it up, it's an M-22. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still satisfied with an M-21. Am I missing anything else?
Now that were talking #'s. I also have a 400 complete. The heads are 4X, the cast #'s next to dist. hole are 481988. Am I missing a #? Near that towards driver side there are four digits that read F093, the letters D N with an arrow pointing to the D. Too much info? The front Pass. side reads 803479 with an X4 stamped right below it. This motor is set up for a 4speed, if that helps any. What do I got?

The "X4" 400 motor is a 1973 400 170/185 BHP (2-Bbl)

I'm thinking that the four speed is a Frankenstein.

The main case is from an M20, built on August 6, 1964. That car it came from was built in the Kansas City plant for 1965 production.

3857584 is the tailshaft housing for a 1966 – 1970 (Passenger side speedo), 27 spline output shaft, meaning it was put onto the main case when the trans was rebuilt.

3884685 is the side cover issued with "584" tailshaft housing units with stud type shift shafts. (As opposed to bolts.)

It's possible that the trans had a bad case and was re-built using a new one.

All bets are off as to whether it is an M20 or M21 until you break it open and count teeth.

Q

Thanks for the info Gents,
It doesn't surprise me that this Muncie was pieced together at one point. This goes for the entire car as well.
Q, what is a Frankenstein?

I think he meant what you just said, pieced together. Either that or it is a MONSTER!!!

Banshee,

How can I actualy find out if it's a 455HO or not?if the block code is XF and the heads are 64's, what else determines it to be an HO motor??Please let me know and Thanks,
Ray

Thanks Banshee,

Since the motors still in the car it;ll be hard to get those numbers until it's pulled. Wouldn't that info be on the build sheet or dealer delivery invoice from PHS? I'm gonna have to pull the back seat to see if the build sheet is there....lol.
Thanks again,
Ray

Try looking up from underneath the car, behind the right front wheel well with a flashlight. Block casting numbers are clearly visible on the back of the block, passenger side, near the top.