Has anybody read the book, "1967-69 Restoration Guide by Joe Moore"?

Does it have a fair amount of detail on how a Firebird should look like from the factory?

I still have a lot to learn about Pontiacs and thought this might be a good book to guide me on the 68 400 I'm semi-restoring.

If it's the soft-cover, 8 1/2 x 11 format book with a red coupe on the cover, then I've got a copy (can't remember the author's name--I'm at work).

It's certainly a help, but I'd say there aren't enough clear photos and some information is probably not entirely correct. It was a surprise to me when I came back into the 'fold' after restoring a mid-year Corvette, how sparse the information is that's available on Firebird restoration.

A guy by the name of M. F. Dobbins has produced several editions of Corvette restoration guides in the same soft-cover format that consist primarily of clear, black and white close-up photos of relevant parts as installed, particularly chronicling the differences from year-to-year. A separate section at the back lists fastener sizes, head markings (Corvette people are fanatical) and finish as well as the correct finish for under-hood/under car areas, including varying levels of gloss black.

This is a monumental undertaking that required access to many original or confirmed 'correctly' restored cars. Moore's book is certainly a start, but you'll need to be fastidious in taking photos at car shows, watching for any literature of the period (ie: car magazines that have road test reviews with photos), talking to other owners, and asking questions on this board.

I'm a relative newcomer here, but I've already been helped considerably by other members posting information and sometimes photos of their original or properly restored cars as a reference.

Goos luck,

grant

I have the book also. I think you'll learn a lot more by talking to people on this site. Although it's nice to have the book as a reference, it didn't preovide any earth shattering info that I couldn't have gotten here.

A Factory Assembly Manual is going to be important. I know that we '67 owners use both the '67 Camaro and '69 Firebird manuals to get as close to our cars as we can.

I don't know if the specific '68 Firebird Assembly Manual is availible.

I used the '67 Camaro Assy. manual for the overall procedures, fit, torque specs, and wire/hose routing.

For more of the nitty gritty stuff like finishes, tags, paint dabs, overspray, etc. I referred to a two part article in High Performance Pontiac mag about Jim Mattison's '67 400 which was restored by Supercar Specialties Scott Tiemann. The article had a lot of good photos and info about it and how he researched and replicated the factory build.

There were still many visible markings on various parts of my bird that I extensively photographed during the teardown of the car. Most are on old polaroids that I have not scanned, but I used them to re-create as many markings as I could find.

I'll have to see if I can dig that old (~10 yrs.) mag up, I once had both issues but I can only remember where one of them is right now.

Though the finished product isn't perfect or an OEM gold restoration, or a trailer queen, I think I did a retty good restoration on my own. I stayed as close to original as I could come.

Love to see it scanned if you do manage to dig it up! Sounds like the same resto as mine, close to original and NOT a trailer queen!

I'd be interested in seeing that article too. If a scan isn't possible, could you at least post the month/year of the issue(s) so I can try to track down a copy?

Thanks,
Pete
67 400 coupe

High Performance Pontiac, Feburary 1999 is 100 Point Resto Part I Engine comp. and I think the next month (bi-monthly at the time??) has part II Underbody.

I am trying to get a scan that is good enough that doesn't create a monster size file, we'll see how it goes.

Not sure I attached correctly

Page 2 and 3

Still looking for the second issue. Enjoy the article, maybe it will help someone. You can even call the shop and speak with Scott, he was very nice and happy to talk and answer my questions.

I remember seeing this Firebird at the TA Nationals one year and meeting Jim Mattison the car's owner. Anyone else here seen this up close and personal?

Cool! Thanks for scanning and posting this.

Larry,

Did you ever find that second issue?

And Grant, you are right about the scarcity of Firebird information. I'm used to researching 1st gen Camaros. I don't think I CAN'T get enough info on these cars!

I bought a 67-69 Camaro Restoration Guide (soft-cover/Motor Books International, I think) last weekend in Toledo. It's got a lot of Assembly Manual drawings reproduced in it (in very good quality compared to the reprinted Firebird Assembly Manual I bought from Ames).

I too would like to see the second restoration article from PHP magazine. One thing I noticed in the first article and drawing on my Corvette restoration experience, is that some of the techniques referred to wouldn't meet the standard of factory correct restoration. The refinishing of the core brace (between the front fender and radiator header) is described as involving "respective layers of PPG's epoxy primer, sealer, primer/surfacer and a final coat of black epoxy primer" It then goes on to say "You'd be hard pressed to replicate this finish with a spray can". I whole-heartedly agree with the last statement, but what's being missed here is that GM's supplier for the part likely finished the part in neither fashion. I can only speak authoritatively with respect to mid-year Corvettes, but I doubt Firebirds and Camaros were much different. Many if not most of the brackets etc were 'dip painted' by their suppliers, and original examples probably show this by thicker paint in some areas or perhaps drips which also indicate which way the part was hung to dry. Given that these were mass-produced, relatively cheap automobiles, there is simply no way GM's supplier did anything like what is described in the article to finish the brace. While the part as refinished in the article is truly beautiful and the finish will last a lot longer than original, it's actually too perfect to replicate factory finishing. Indeed, spray can painting with the part hanging to dry would likely result in a much more accurate replication of the factory finish. Not perfect by any means, but accurate.

BTW, 'dip painting' of small parts for restoration is not as wasteful/costly as it might seem. The factory dipped parts in a mostly water-filled vessel with only a thin layer of (solvent-based) paint floating on the surface because of its lower specific gravity. The part, hung by a hook is simply carefully dipped fully into the vessel, being careful not to touch the sides and then carefully removed and hung to dry.

grant

Yeah, I was wondering why they went through the trouble of the multiple coats of paint. I guess if it looks like the factory finish, even though too perfect, then they accomplished their task.

Good ol' Rustoleum always works for me!

I remember reading about how the process of paint dipping was accomplished. Probably wouldn't be very efficient for just a few parts. Mass production only.

Actually, from an efficiency standpoint it's probably the most efficient way of doing a bunch of small parts...that's why the factory and suppliers did it that way. Think about it: twisting and turning with the spray can to get paint into every nook and cranny of a bracket or panel versus simply dipping it into the paint and pulling it out, knowing that it has complete coverage. Even in terms of economy (another big consideration by GM), it makes sense. Bulk paint is cheaper than spray cans and without overspray the wastage is somewhat minimized. The trick is to get all of your parts ready and make a reasonable estimate of how much paint will be needed to cover them all. Running out of paint in the floating layer screws-up the process of course, so there will be some wastage there, but no more than overspray if you're careful.

grant

BTW, speaking of spray paints (Rustoleum, etc), the Corvette guys claim there's a good range of different black gloss levels carried within the "Blitz Black" line of John Deere, available at their dealerships. I haven't bought any there myself but use Rustoleum, Krylon semi-flat black and a Mar-Hyde product called "semi-gloss guide coat" (presumably a guide coat for surface sanding). Among these three brands, not to mention the SEM line and 'satin' or 'trim' blacks by various manufacturers, you can get just about any underhood/under car gloss level neede to look 'factory original'.

grant

SEM Trim Black is one of my favorites.

I like Eastwood's "Underhood Black". They claim it's the correct 30% gloss for GM.