Hey guys...I have posted on this forum it what seems like forever. I kind of had to put working on the Firebird to the side for a little while (as I am sure all of y'all had to do at one point or another). I am about to attempt to bring this car back to minimal running status...but I have a few problems. I was hoping yall could shed some light and knowledge on me!

First off...correct me if I am wrong, but from the timing cover/water pump to the intake manifold is the sleave and seal assmbly? regardless of what it is called, the part running to the water crossover on the intake manifold is damaged...and the seal doesnt seat properly...so when the radiator is full...water leaks (should i say pours) out from where the manifold meets said part. This is a new (like new) edelbrock intake...so its not the actual manifold with the problem. What is the best way to fix this problem and the parts I need...as well as rough estimate on cost?

Second, If I can not get a fellow Texan with welding knowledge (someone that has done floors in an F-Body before I mean)...I am gonna have it done by a shop. What would yall expect to be a fair price on labor (i know the cost of parts) to weld in two full length floorboards?

Finally...I am still totally clueless on my electrical problems. Everything except the taillight section works and the rear side marker lights. Many people have suggested a bad ground. Well, to be honest, I have no idea where to look for that ground. Aside from that...anyone care to suggest other problems it may be? Or want to walk me through this one?

I think that will do it for now...sorry for such a long post. I am coming up on a year for owning this car and was hoping it would be at least running...ugly and in need of much work, but running by now :rolleyes:

Thanks guys!

David

David, I will try to help on questions 1 & 3

1 It is probebly a rusted out timimg cover, I have found many over the years that look fine but are pin holed on the inside, And as you are in the south, there is a good chanch someone ran straight water in the car at one piont, and that always increases the internal corrosion.
So I would pull the timing cover and check it out, especially if you say you know the intake is good.

2 Sorry I am in Michigan, can't help you much there.

3 the ground for the tail light harness in my 69 in betwen the tail lights screwd to the trunk floor, also remember that each light socket has a individual ground that makes contact with the tail light assembly when you install the socket.
I would first check to see that you are getting 12 volts to the sockets, and then check and clean the harness and all individual socket grounds and see what hapens.

Jeff R

I'm going to add to Jeff's #1 and #3:

#1. Re-tap the threads in the front hole on the intake. Edelbrock NEVER taps them deep enough. Tighten the long bolt that pulls the manifold and timing cover together FIRST, then do the rest of the bolts. (Install all the other bolts, and tighten them finger tight.)

#1-1/2 Consider cutting the water crossover off the manifold to give it more room to move. I can explain if you need more details.

#3: There is an intermediate wiring harness that runs under the left side rocker cover trim. It's encased in a sleeve that you'll see after you pull up the carpet. If your floors are rotted out, there is a possibility that this intermediate harness is corroded. The 12V check that Jeff recommmends will be a useful tool in determining if this is a place you should look. I had similar wiring issues to yours. Replaceing EVERY harness in the car was the only solution.

Q

Thanks guys...I wll be checking the voltage later this week. I was just out looking at the timing cover to intake manifold area...it does seem a bit corroded around the edges where it connects to the manifold...would it be best to just replace it? I mean, I plan on swapping the engine at some point...so would this be too much work in the meantime? Q's comment is also noted about the the threads not being deep enough for the bolt to screw down properly...I noticed that when i was screwing it down.

I am guessing that replacing the timing cover is going to be the way to go.

Ok, and on the welding floors part...if I had to take it to a shop...what would yall guess would a legitimate price on labor for welding in two full length floorboards?

Thanks,
David

buy the one piece floorboard that comes with the transmission tunnel, rear section, and all the brackets. there is also a front pan section on each side you may need. take out the entire interior before you go up there and it will cost a little less. (bolt the driver's seat back in or have it towed)

i cant hazard a guess at the welding cost, but shop around, and avoid the shop with the cheapest price unless they have an excellent reputation.

Well, the one piece for sure seems like the way to go...as it has some of the brackets...however, I am hoping to find another bird enthusiast in the area that has done this before...so it wouldnt be a big deal to reuse the brackets.

So if I replace the timing cover, should I go ahead and replace the water pump as well?

David

i did 2 full floors on mine. never again. if i couldn't get by with patch panels, i would do the 1 piece. i actually would like to do mine over with the 1 piece someday. i didn't take enough time on mine to get them perfectly placed, and to weld all the way down the tunnel and grind the welds down on both sides (i guess that's about 9'+ of weld) . i also cut partway thru one of my belt brackets by mistake. they are placed right in between the new floors and the trans tunnel. i think between me and my friend, we spent at least 5 hours on it (in the shop on a sunday) not including interior. the floors are now tackwelded, seamsealed, and ugly, with one slightly lower... but strong and functional. you only notice it when it's on a lift. i would give myself a week+ to do the same job again, but properly... i'm no bodyman by a longshot.
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when you replace the timing cover, i am of the opinion you should do a new pump and divider plate too. read up on the posts about overheating and divider plate to impeller clearance. you can put these parts on your rebuilt engine when you do it.

Thanks Scott...I had been going back and forth on whether to do the two pans or the single pan. I also have asked a local musician here who is into hotrods and cars in general (who is trying to start a hotrod garage) to help out with my car...in exchange for free recording at my studio. He says he is interested and I could definitely use the help...I told him that if we can get it to the point where it will make it to Houston (and be inspected) that I would record a full length album for free for him. Maybe the car will be running sooner than later now.

David

One question for anyone that has done the single piece floor pan. This thing looks pretty big...does one have to remove the door to get it into the car?

David

It should go in with both windows (door and quarter) down. But the only way to install it (easilly) would be to remove BOTH doors.

Q

Ok, am i just being dumb...but all the catalogs I have looked through (ames, performance years, year one, classic industries)...none of them have a timing cover for a 68 350??? Am I overlooking it?

David

David, I looked everywhere myself. I don't think you can find "new" 68 covers.....'69's you can, and they will fit, but have to change out pulleys due to going from 8 bolt to 11 bolt on the waterpump. I thought about doing it, since '69 parts are easier to find, but eventually found a pretty decent used one from Terry @ youjincho@prodigy.net or 954-721-1459, or Bill @ EarlyBrds@aol.com, they have alot of stuff. Good luck!

Ahhhh, i see. Thanks for the contacts! One thing though...I am going to replace the waterpump as well...should I just go ahead and switch over to a 69 Timing cover and waterpump? Might be easiest since I am changing both out.

David

David, found this old thread web page Kelly

David , Craig here in Houston helped me to weld some....but you might want to find a Austin guy to help....after all its 175 miles away.....Did I give you Craigs number?

Blackbird...thanks for the link. I will read up on it. If you wanna just trade cars instead...just let me know haha

Bjorn..hey, how are you?! Yes, I talked to Craig a few times...but he seems like he may not have room or the time...which I totally understand. However, I have struck a deal with a local hotrodder/musician. He is going to help me get my car to the point where it will pass inspection in exchange of me recording an album for his band at my studio. He is very busy though...so I am not sure how long it will take. But I am happy to get going on it.

He is trying to start a hotrod shop here in Austin with a friend of his from Flamingo Automotive (kind of a famous mechanic shop here in town). Anyways, this buddy of his is a HUGE Pontiac enthusiast. Apparently he has a huge collection. Well, last night my brother and I drove over to that Flamingo shop since it is only like a mile from our house...sure enough, in a fenced in area was 5 GTO's and 2 second gen birds (in various conditions). Well, from what I understand...that is just a very small sample of his collection!

David

David , sounds like you found the right guy....

by the way I met my friends daughter up in Toronto, she`s part of a group (the Lingonberries) that do a cappella singing, now they are in Michigan, Minnesota doing ABBA songs on a tour..theyr`e trying to get an OK from ABBA to record a CD w the songs...maybe they need to come to Austin to record at your studio?!

Hey Bjorn...well, send them on down to record! Don't have too much experience with that kind of music, but I am sure I could get it down!

Ok, posted this to the list...but for some reason i haven't seen it come through yet...so I will post it here also:

Well, I had the guy come by the house today to assess my car and what we need to do to get it on the street. He seems like he is really busy...so I have no clue when this will happen. However, I am not sure what the best way to go about this...regarding which floor pan to get. The rear seat area, where the brackets are, are in great condition...and don’t needt to be replaced. However, the floor in front of the rear seats where your feet go is in bad shape on both sides...and the tunnel area near the seatbelt bolts is really messed up from a ujoint failure. The front floor is trashed, but not underneath the front seat mounts, and the area that slants up towards the firewall is intact, but very thin and weak from rust. So if I go with the complete floor pan (the big one piece) it would basically replace the backseat area that is in great shape and not the part in the front between the pan and the firewall??? That kind of sucks! Any suggestions?

David

the firewall extension is a separate piece, but it is available. i don't think it comes with the regular sectioned or full floors either. it didn't on mine.

David, either way you go, with a whole pan, or two halves or smaller patch panels etc... all you would need to do (say in the case of the whole floor pan) is to measure, mark and cut the pan to fit up to where you need it, so say you need all of it up to just below the rear seat etc... then you just cut that section off of the new pan and your good to go.

Sounds like this may be the way you'll need to go? If you need part of the tunnel etc? I haven't looked at what is available, and you should know by now what's out there, and maybe you can just buy say the two rear sections, the tunnel and then the two front sections and just patch what you need?

Either way, you can make it fit your needs.

Glad to hear things are still moving forward!

Later - Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!

I thought yall would say that! :p

This guy I am trying get to help me came by and wanted to do the patching technique...but to be honest, I would really like to do the single piece just so its done right. I dont give a flip about concours restorations...but I want it to be some hillbilly restoration either. If it was just one or two areas...I would just patch it...but it is both front floors, one of the rear floors, the tunnel area where both seatbelts bolt in and the front toe boards where they go up to meet the firewall. Plus, I want to switch out the old rubber body mounts with the poly ones I bought. This guy readily admits he isnt really a body guy, but has done welding in the past just to get things going...that doesnt make me nervous at all...but he honestly is super busy and I dont know when he could get around to it. I wish there was someone in the Austin area that could help out with this one project. There are plenty of folks around that are willing to help out with the other things I have no clue about.

David