I'm a long time lurker, but not much of a poster. I respect all of your opinions and I'm looking for some advice here.

Took my '67 Vert to a body shop this weekend. Turns out I didn't look it over as well as I thought I had. Either that or it's deteriorated faster than I expected. Basically, we walked around the car and decided EVERY body panel was going to need something. He threw out a rough estimate of $20k just to get the rust out and get back into primer. I knew there was some rust in the back end, but not as much as we found.

At any rate, the car isn't anything real special. It's a convertible (which I love), it has a 400 and 4 speed from a '68 Catalina (IIRC), and a power top. It started life as a OHC-6 car. It runs and drives pretty well (a little hot for my taste). I don't have a lot invested in it.

The bit of advice I'm looking for is this: Is it worth it to try to bring this car back from the dead, or am I better off finding another project with less body work to do? I have no issues turning wrenches, but body work is another issue entirely.

Thanks for the help. I'm just kind of disheartened at the situation.

Sounds high unless he's figure'n all new metal.

Scope out the classifieds and see what you can get for 20k.

That's the odd thing. He told me he could build an ALL NEW body (like Dynacorn's, only with better gaps) for $16k. A little more if I wanted to have all the EP coating taken off and replaced with epoxy primer. That's for a firewall back body. I can't imagine there being $4k in the front clip sheetmetal, even if it was all new.

And then whatever a paint job costs on top of that...

You asked for opinions so here is mine. For the same 20k you find a car that is already done, paint and all, ready to drive.

The down side to working with what you have is, honest opinion here, you will end up putting more into the car than what it will be worth in the end. I know many will not agree with me as I always look at the investment aspect. No matter how nice the car is when it's done, it will not be worth what it will cost to get it there due to the non matching number etc.

Think of this, let's say your car that you have now is worth 5k, sell it & put 10-15k with it and buy a nice driver. Most likely the person who buys your bird will be a body/paint person and they will do the body/paint and not have as much into it etc.

The estimate the guy gave you might sound high, but once you start removing all those rusty panels, 20k will rack up REAL QUICK...

My buddy here started with a rusty car , (previous a 6 cyl. that someone put a 400 in...)
it was to the point that he needed a Dynacorn body...he went that route...he now has 6 figures in that car...nice, very nice ,but ,just sayin....

Put some very detailed pics of your car up on Google or Photobucket so we can view them and give you a more informed opinion. Did you order the PHS doc yet?

Agreed, pics of the worst of it are needed.

It's real easy to throw numbers around. He may not be interested in taking on a resto project ( a lot of shops are not, as they move slow and take space that quick insurance jobs could make more profit in ) or he's looking to see how hard you flinch.

That said, I just put a ton of money into a non-matching 400 4 speed convertible because the car is exactly what I was looking for. With today's market prices, I could have bought another car completely done for what I put into just the car and bodywork outside of all the other resto work, and could have had the car on the road for two years.

If the car runs and drives, it'll sell, so shop around first and see what's available, consider selling with a nice cleanup, and enjoy your driving time.

Thanks for all the opinions and advice. I really do appreciate it. I'm still on the fence about what to do, but leaning more towards selling right now. I'll grab some photos tomorrow and try to get some pics of the worst bits.

The car really doesn't look bad going down the road. Actually the last two times I had it out I got a lot of waves and thumbs up. Just a lot of work hiding under the skin. In this case beauty really is only skin deep. Lol. I've definitely enjoyed driving it and will continue to do so.

If you love the car keep it and enjoy it. Do small bits of work within your budget and some day money won't be an object and you will be able to afford it.

Consider an auto body class at your local college. Most will even have a spray booth. The teacher surely will guide you in the right direction. If you can work a wrench surely a grinder falls in that catagory. My friend just used glue to install his quarters on a cutlass. Seems this is the new method to panel installation. Surely you can glue in patch panels. My thought is at least you will know what you have. A skilled body man can make a rust bucket look perfect for a couple years. A car purchased to be flipped never gets the attention a keeper does. Cut it, patch it, learn a few things, sand with a long stick, and then proudly say YEP DID IT MYSELF! Body work is patience. My friend with the cutlass first held a spray gun in his hand shooting POR inside my fenders. His car is beautiful now!

Don't give up. Its a long haul but worth it. I just got done spraying our car and although I am sure that it isn't as good of a job as a professional would have done it looks pretty darn good. And being able to say "I did it" is a great feeling.

Well that sounds like both sides to me. I like the do it yourself attitude most take here. If you run into a snag you have tons of experience here to help along the way.

Do it yourself takes two things, know how and TONS of $$! If your short on either one, buy a car that is already a driver and enjoy the hobby and bypass a TON of aggravation. IMO...

Sure sounds great Joe but most people don't have 20k lying around to throw at something that will spend more time in the garage than being enjoyed on the road. I spent what I could afford wish I had 20k I'd have a lot nicer car. But I do have a nice driver that I can tinker with and make my own.

Photo link below (!!!!WARNING: Not for the faint of heart!!!):
http://picasaweb.google.com/107821116172847371058/67Firebird#

I couldn't get under the car today, but the pictures show most of the story.

The good: The hood, firewall, upper cowl, rear seat area, rockers, front subframe, inner fenders, and core support all seem OK. May be some rust hiding near the battery though. Engine runs pretty well, but will need to be rebuilt to be reliable. Transmission is pretty flawless once you figure out how to work around the slop in the shifter. Rear end is a dual traction bar unit. Odd considering it's a not posi.

The bad: Floors are rusty and someone used a spoon (can opener at best) to carve a new shifter hole. Lots of filler in the rear quarters and lower fenders. The doors have a splotch of filler on the front, lower corners. I couldn't get the camera in there. Rear frame rails are a little suspect. They sound solid enough when you tap on them, but there's a lot of scaly rust in that general area. A touch of surface rust on dash next to the windscreen.

The ugly: Lots of rust in the rear wheel-wells. The trunk appears to be rusting from the bottom up. Kind of odd, but the car did spend the first couple of decades of it's life in the Northern states. I consider these spots the worst rust on the vehicle AND the hardest to repair. I'm beginning to think I could manage the rest of the work, just not the work in the back half of the car.

I completely understand, however, that is my point. You will spend the 20k either way, little here and there over 5-10 years while working on a project. Most will give up and sell for less than half what they have into it, others will keep on going and end up putting more into the car than it will ever be worth.

On the flip side, take a loan for 15-20k and buy something already done because there will always be stuff to do and tinker with and enjoy the hobby. I could never figure out why people will go buy a brand new car for 20, 30, 40, 50k and think nothing of it for a vehicle that will be worth less than half 2 years later. But they can't imagine taking a loan for 15k and buying a nice 79 Bandit TranAm for example and having a ton of fun with it and have it increase in value over the next several years.

The exception is this is the folks who have the knowledge to do the work themselves, shop/garage, extra room, tons of time and cash to follow through on a resto. That is my opinion for someone wanting to get into this hobby as in this person's situation. Simply an opinion/suggestion.

A perfect example is a friend of mine from Buffalo, NY. He has owned and COMPLETELY restored a 79 bandit car over the last 15 years. The car is simply gorgeous. Probably had 20k into it. He just sold it two months ago for 12k to a guy in NJ. I'd rather be the guy in NJ making a $150/mo payment on a loan for this car than the guy in Buffalo who litterally cries over his loss daily. I'll post a pic of the car later when we get back. You guys will not beleive this car!

Actually, I've been in the classic car world for quite some time. Pop finished restoring a '69 Camaro SS when I was really young. My first car was a '69 Chevelle Malibu that I have stashed at my parents' house in Kansas. It was mostly done when I bought it, but Pop and I tinkered on it while I was home. This Firebird is my first shot at really restoring a car and it looks like I bit off more than I was ready for.

I really like having a convertible, but I think this one may be too much for me to bring back. For right now, I think I'll keep it and have fun with it. Hell, I may even get daring and replace the floor pans myself so I can get the interior put back in. When I find another '67 Firebird Convertible that's more my speed for restoration (e.g. mechanicals are shot on a good body), I'll buy it and sell this one.


Pop's '69 Camaro, my '04 GTO (daily driver), and my '69 Chevelle.

[quote=CountZ

I really like having a convertible, but I think this one may be too much for me to bring back. For right now, I think I'll keep it and have fun with it. Hell, I may even get daring and replace the floor pans myself so I can get the interior put back in. When I find another '67 Firebird Convertible that's more my speed for restoration (e.g. mechanicals are shot on a good body), I'll buy it and sell this one.

That sounds like a good way to approach things. Make what you have drivable and enjoy it. Keep your eves open for something better and when it turns up, grab it and sell the one you have now. With the interior finished, your car looks very presentable so have some fun with it and see what happens.

The good news is there is sheet metal for everything that car needs.

The bad part is that the car has cancer, the in the seams rot that takes a lot of work (and time and money) to fix. The lower quarters and rockers are full of filler. It was definitely a bandaid job.

If you paid a reasonable price and are not so attached that you need to keep this particular car, you can find better to start with. If you are just looking for a car to enjoy for a couple of years and not put money into, put in an interior, make it safe, and drive it.

It's not an investment car, but whether you choose to put big money or big time into it is your decision.

Can make it into winter and w/e projects, and still enjoy the car in most of the summer months. Will take longer but should be able to do a fender patch in a w/e. Or a cheater quarter over a couple weekends. Body work panel by panel drive it in primer. If 2/3 of the wheel well are good replace the bad 1/3rd. If the trunk floor is solid blast off the surface rust and spray it with por 15. Car doesn't look that bad to me. Take a look at what mine looked like! This was my first frame off, was not easy, and yes I have lots of tools but think many people with ambition can do it. I have said it before this site is a wealth of knowledge all willing to help. Best of all its free. Take a couple college classes or do some reading and tear it up! Have to throw this in. My friend with the cutlass went to a show in one of our most expensive subarbs. His quote "I dont think I will go back there... bunch of rich guys with big bellies hardly fit in the cars, and none of em knew a thing about them". There was also something about them not knowing how to turn a screw driver too.

That Camaro & Chevelle are really sharp!

Amen to that.

The trick is to buy the highest level of "done" you can afford. That'll be more economic than thinking you can save money buying a fixer-upper, with hopes of fixing it in a defined period of time so to get it back on the road to enjoy it. I, for one, learned that is a misconception.

Only those who are themselves craftsmen can bring such cars back from the dead without breaking the bank. Just my opinion.

That is definitely an ambitious project, 20k can be spent real quickly on the body bringing it back to where it should be. I guess you need to figure out what you want. I'd get it driveable for starters and look not to dump alot of money into this car. Like Hank said try to enjoy it until you find something nicer.

Thanks Joe! Your Lemans is looks great and I really loved your Bird. One of these days we're going to have to meet up. Do you still go to the cruise-ins in Orlando?

Thanks again folks for all the advice and opinions. I can't tell you how great it is to have a group like this to bounce ideas off and know I'm getting genuine, honest answers.

Been looking pretty hard at this '67 Coupe on eBay. 67 Coupe Short Link
It's not the convertible that I want, but it looks to be the perfect level of restoration for me. Still needs a few finishing touches, but it looks complete and ready to hop in and drive. Price doesn't seem too bad at the moment. Then again, it has 0 Bids and almost 4 days to go. Underside has some surface rust in a few spots it appears: Underside

Maybe someone with some keen eyes can point out the nasty spots. Also looking into having a third party take a look at it.

Yes try to find someone to go look at it for you. Sure someone here might live close. Never buy sight unseen. Pictures never tell the whole story.. Oh by the way the 68-69 Chevelles are my favorite in that model VERY nice....

count, we go to Old Town quite regularly. In fact, we are meeting up with a guy from the PY forums this Saturday. I have never been to any cruise night like this anywhere else in the country. Old Town is just incredible, hundreds of cars and THOUSANDS of spectator every saturday of the year!

Joe - Sounds like a blast! I'm busy the next few Saturdays with work, but I'll definitely send you a PM when I decide to go.

Found a couple of other pics of the Camaro and Chevelle I thought you guys might enjoy.







First two look like they could have been in a sales brochure. The last one is one of my favorites.

-Brent

That car looks thoroughly enjoyable. The photo of the undercarriage isn't great, but I don't see any warning signs.

I like the styling of the 68-69 chevelle. Look at those pictures the camaro doesn't hold a candle to the chevelle. Maybe just the color combo on the chevelle. If only the badges said ss396?