Hey, so, my engine has been rebuilt and is now back on the subframe.

It turns over via the starter and occasionally chugs a couple times as it tries and fires, but never picks up and runs on its own. Twice now I've also had 4 foot fireballs shooting out the carb when I've been fiddling with the choke and throttle whilst cranking... I've checked the timing, I had the spark plugs out, valve covers off, and distributor cap off - so checked thoroughly - and all is well. I am getting sparks at all leads at the correct time. Onto fuel, and this is the weird bit. The pump is definitely sucking up fuel, and is making it's way into the carb. Here's the weird bit: with all spark plugs out and cranking the engine, pots 2 and 4 piss out liquid fuel (out of the spark plug holes) whilst all others are bone dry. This is where there seems a problem... Seems like the carb isn't vaporising the fuel, or if it is, the fuel is somehow not making it to all cylinders (possibly problem with intake passage or cyclinder drawing it in??). The car was on a slight slope meaning the intake was lowest at the 2 and 4 ports but even when jacking the front up so these 2 are the highest, the same 2 cylinders are squirting out fuel and the others not even a whiff of petrol.

I'm at a bit of a loss here... Please could anyone give some advice/suggestions? Really want this to fire up!

Your timing is way out. You need to realign your wirings going into your distributor. You need to get the engine at TDC on the compression stroke on cylinder #8. The rotor at this position is pointing #8 plug wire. Make sure the #8 wire going into distributor is positioned to engage that position on the distributor. Use the firing order and proper direction to plug in the rest of the wires.

I would get some starting fluid to assist the process along. Even if the carb isn't working, it will still try to start. But as previously described, it sounds like timing. When setting up, try advancing the timing and then bringing it back. If it is really retarded it will act like you describe.

Thanks guys for the replies. Initally I did think it screamed of timing issues... but now I'm really quite sure the timing is correct. I've had valve covers off, the dist cover off and the plugs out, and by pulsing the ignition on slowly I can follow the whole engine working... so for all cylinders, in this order... I do get intake valve opening and cylinder moving down, intake closing and the compression stroke, a spark for the corresponding plug, then the piston moving down and exhaust valves opening. The dist and valves all follow the firing order.

My main concern is why fuel only seems to be reaching cylinders 2 and 4. The other plugs don't have a whiff of petrol on them whereas 2 and 4 definitely do.

(In my original post I should've said that the pouring out of petrol from holes 2 and 4 is only after pumping the throttle and so flooding it)

Timing. My first guess is it's 180 out as being off even 15-20 degrees it would still run. Run rough, but it'd run.
I'm going to assume the timing chain was installed correctly.

Start over, find TDC on the Compression, confirm the timing mark is around TDC and check-reinstall the distributor, check firing order and plug wire position.
If you're running points you can test light it get the timing dead on. Also make sure the point gap is correct.

You're also dumping way to much fuel in it. You don't need much to run and idle.

What type carb and intake?

Thanks ho248, you might've missed my post just prior to yours? there was a matter of seconds between postings. I was careful when assembling, the cam and crank shafts both have keys on so the gears only fit one way. The gears both have an alignment mark on them which should be pointing each other to correctly align (the cam mark pointing down, the crank pointing up). Also, I have followed the engine working and it's perfect - follows the 18436572 order and the movements of piston and valves are correct.

The carb and intake are the stock originals... 2 barrel. They had worked prior to the rebuild and have not been touched. I am planning on getting an Edelbrock intake a 4bbl carb, but before dropping the money wanted to prove the engine - didn't think it'd be them holding it back...


I do get a couple of firings but never enough for the engine to pick up. I may try and get a video of it, but my battery is pretty flat right now.

Thanks so much for the help so far.

Did you install and set the distributor to number one with the cam-crank marks pointing at each other? Crank 12:00, Cam 6:00?

If so I'll stick with my 180 out.

The distributor went in afterwards when the engine had been turned over by hand a couple times, but piston 1 was TDC of what I thought was compression stroke. I am back to thinking it's timing again, gonna play with the distributor later. Although at the moment I am getting a spark after the intake valve closes and before the exhaust opens while the piston is at the top of the cylinder... which is why I'm puzzled by how it's timing. I don't mean to be adamant in saying I'm not wrong! Here's a video of it not running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMSxbfYvXvw&feature=channel



Also, here just because I caught it on video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiBKPTFwrqo&feature=channel

For this to flame back right through the intake and carb means there is a spark happening whilst the intake valve is open. Is that right?

Think I'll take covers off again, get piston 1 TDC on compression stroke, which is after the intake has closed and before exhaust opens, and reinstall the distributor. Make sense?

100% sure it's timing! Been there done that.

Hold finger on 1 spark plug hole and feel the air pressure come out for the compression stroke then turn by hand to get top dead center.

I got this from another site. (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/what-best-way-find-tdc-115173.html)

"The way I do it is to disconnect the coil and remove the number 1 spark plug, stick your finger in the spark plug hole and rotate the engine. When the compression pops your finger out of the hole you are pretty darn close to top dead center on the compression stroke. This should be close enough to TDC to get the distributer aligned close enough to start the motor.

To get a closer reading of the true top dead center, then stick a piece of wire into the spark plug hole and touch it to the piston top. Rotate the engine by hand back and forth and watch the movement of the wire. From this you should be able to tell when the piston is at the top of its stroke. This is close enough for setting your timing mark. Thousandths of an inch aren't important here."

Not big deal to be 180 out, hell I still do it from time to time not paying attention.
You can rotate it by hand with the VC's off and watch the valve motion, or bump the starter. On compression get the marks on TDC.
Like Gus says, you can double check with some wire that the piston is up.

Gonna hit some basics here just in case, so don't take it personal.
#1 is on the right side, first plug, looking in from the front of the car. I would say drivers side but I see you're in UK.
Distributor turns CCW, that's pretty basic stuff but it does throw some Ford and Chevy guys off sometimes.

Run through the firing order and chase the wires in a CCW direction.
If all that doesn't work, since this is a recent rebuild one other thing to check is make sure the lifters are not adjusted so tight the valves are open.

Once you have found TDC on piston #1, remove plug wire #1 & push the lead so it is exposed. With distributor loose, turn key to the "ON' position, hold plug wire near a metal ground on the engine and turn distributor until you get a good spark. From there it should start. This is called static timing. Once engine fires you can then set timing properly.

Steve

Thanks everybody... I screwed up with the timing, ha. Cam and crank were aligned correctly, it was just the position of the dizzy. I thought it was firing at the right time, and even thought I proved that while testing, but on another look, I found I was out by a whole cylinder... plug 2 was firing when cylinder 1 was TDC. Reinstalled the distributor, rotated round slightly, and the engine fires nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mod4ltj7uu0&feature=profile

Thanks again!

Help us Yanks out, what is a dizzy?

ah... distributor guess it didn't help me using the slang and full name in the same post..

You should ask them what they call Liberals!

You going to keep the 2bbl on?

For a while I will be, I want to put on a 4bbl and new intake when funds permit though. I think an Edelbrock Performer intake (maybe the RPM) and a Holley carb... (but can't for the life of me think what model number I had researched to be the one)

Use a factory manifold and find a good rebuilt or core Q-jet, It will look better and outperform in my opinion. Definitely keep the 2bbl set-up though.

You are dead on with this advise. I never realized just how good a stock intake and Q-jet were until I recently removed the Edlebrock intake and carb from my 326 and installed the stock 68 intake & Q-jet from my Bird. WOW!!!! What a difference. The car even idles better. My friend Mike said he would have never imagined there would have been such a difference. The car even sounds better!

Not too mention all the flow testing HPP did not too long ago, proved the Pontiac intakes flowed better than any aftermarket intake on the market. Said to be among the best ever produced by any mfg.