I am new to the forum and happy to be here! I have been lurking here for some time and have been communicating with wiscbird about his 69 vert that is for sale. I wish we could make a deal!
I am currently working on a 71 GTO restoration with my dad. (his first car, ordered from factory by him in 71)Very cool car with lots of sentimental value. We should be done by mid-summer and dad said he would pay for the restoration of a 69 bird for me when we are done with his. Lucky me! The only catch is, I have to find and purchase the car to restore. I live in Utah and would like to find something close by but I would swim the widest river or climb the highest mountain for the right car. I am looking for a relatively cancer free car that is mostly complete and hopefully has the correct #'s power train, V8 manual trans. I will be doing a frame-off restoration back to factory specs, no hot roddie aftermarket scab job crap.
I have a once in a lifetime opportunity to realize my lifelong car dream and now I need to find the right car...can you help me?

What's wrong with wiscbird's car? His current price is already lower than it should be.

I'd grab it and run!

Have you seen the car in person?

No. Have you?

no...just pics, I am afraid after media blasting too much sheet metal work will have to be done.

If I was looking for good honest 69 vert project I would not hesitant to purchase wiscbird's car.

I wish I could put it together on my end! I have a good gut feeling about his car.

Don't be afraid of media blasting done by the right hands with the right materials. My '68 was media blasted and came back so clean and smooth it was a shame to have to paint it. No ripples, no straightening needed.

I am currently restoring a 1971 GTO that my dad ordered and bought new, that was virtually rust free. Even after media blasting there are no holes, but I have seen several pony cars that are rotted beyond belief after media blasting. I have not seen Wiscbird's car, but that was my biggest concern.

Tom, I'm being honest when I say that this car is not all rusted out like most midwest/northern cars. This car has the original floors, trunk, rails, 1/4's & some of the original carousel red paint is still on them. It will need some bodywork, yes, but, the metal is good to work with.

My best advice is still what I've been saying for the last month while we've been in discussion... come and look at the car. Or have someone else you trust, or one of the forumites here come and look at the car.

Between the two different photo links Ive sent you, theres almost 80 pics of the car, including what I consider the worst areas.

But Im willing to take you or a representative of yours to my garage, and I'll point out every inch of the car, inside, out, top, bottom, so you can see for yourself.

Anyone who knows me knows that Im a straight shooter, Im not going to lie, because I don't need to. I think once you see the car, it will sell itself...and if you look at it and decide its not for you, all you've wasted is your time, and the money to drive out/fly out to see it. No harm, no foul, no issues.

Think it over and kick me an email if you change your mind... ok?

And if someone else here wants to come and look at the car for Tom, please contact Tom, or contact me and I'll setup a meeting to show the car.

Hey WiscBird,

Where in WI are you? If you aren't too far from Green Bay I could take a run over and check it out for Tom. I've owned my '69 for over 20 years and know where all the "normal" areas of concern are.

Wow! Thanks Hank. I think he is in the Madison area...this just might seal the deal one way or the other. Keep me posted.

Hank, pm sent....

Tom, Ive sent Hank a pm about my location. (Im west of Madison, so Im about 3 hrs from Green Bay.)

We'll see if we can arrange something, or if anyone else closer wants to take a look.

Tom/Hank... I sent a pm to Steve as well to ask if he would be available to look it over too. (Steves in Wisc too.)

Luckily for me my dad will paying the costs of restoration as re-payment for doing his GTO, I just have to find the right car…a third party opinion would be very valuable in this situation. I plan on a ground up restoration and cancer is my biggest issue. The body will be media blasted and the less replacing of sheet metal the better. Wiscbird has been very up-front about the car and its history and all the extras make me drool. The car is just outside my budget but I am trying to find a way. I had not planned on doing a convertible and have mixed feelings about that as well. Any advise is wholly appreciated!

Nothing better than putting that top down on a beautiful day!

There's a reason 'verts are worth more than coupes.

You can always put the top up on a 'vert, but you can't put the top down on a coupe. (without major surgery that is)

What are the opinions about the harmonics the verts experience due to the lack of the structural support of the hard top requiring the "cocktail shakers" on all four corners?

Are they there Wiscbird?

Have driven mine about 178,000 miles and have never noticed any harmonic vibrations that I can recall. Have always left the vibration dampeners in place.

The only harmonics issues I have with my 'verts is in fall when I have to put them in storage. Screws up the harmonics of my life every year!

Seriously, no problems what-so-ever. Keep in mind that I don't jackrabbit from light to light, or try to blow the doors off every Mustang that pulls up next to me. Just lazy day cruizing (unwinding) for me.

This from Chevy-camero.com..."On the corners of convertibles there are what's called "cocktail shakers" or vibration dampeners which were originally installed on every first gen convertible Camaro to help prevent vibrations. They were installed due to a very flexible body in the convertible models because of the lack of the roof structure. Some reinforcement was added to the convertible rockers and floors but it wasn't enough to prevent all vibration problems. The cocktail shakers are large cans with a suspended mass on a spring in a viscous fluid that are mounted on the corners - 4 in all. They were tuned to a resonant frequency of the convertible that caused the vibration problems. When the body was subjected to loading that would otherwise tend to make it oscillate, much of the energy was instead absorbed by the motion of the masses in the cocktail shakers - which reduced the vibration in the convertible body. The cocktail shakers weight about 25 pounds each."

Are you looking for a Rolls Royce or a Firebird? Have no fear, the car will not shake apart, or rattle your teeth, if the shakers are not in place.

My cars have the shakers, and the brackets do add structural bracing to the body. They can be installed if desired, they appear on eBay with great regularity. They are not necessary, I have seen more Firebirds without them than with them due to the likelihood of front end crunches over 40 years time. If you're drag racing, you likely won't be doing it in a convertible.

When our '68 was in for media blasting, it was raised at 45 degrees by the front subframe and the doors still opened and closed properly without shakers, kidney pans, or any of the other bolt-on stiffeners. Look for a car with good rockers and tunnel and you'll be on the right track.

As to cars that have been blasted looking like Swiss cheese...the blasting did not cause it, only exposed it. And it cleaned out the cancer so that proper repairs can be made. If you find a car that has already been blasted and photos taken during/after, or if the car is still in epoxy prime, you will see the good, the bad, and the ugly.

To answer your question....

YES.. My beloved "Buffy" the California Halloween convertible still has her shakers on all four corners. Her rockers are very nice, her tunnel is nice, all frame points are solid, still has original paint on her pans and splatter in her trunk. (Sorry, after rereading that it sounds kind of funny.)

Anyway, the only areas of rust, which I sent pics to you Tom... p/s fender lower corner (typical), p/s lower door strike (likely from inside to out), p/s rear exterior pan. I would also recommend patching the p/s rear 1/4 due to dents; d/s rear 1/4 either pull the dents or patch... but the metal for both is good. (I have patches that go with it.)

There will be other small holes or dents that need addressing (I sent pics), and there may be more uncovered that I don't see once you strip/media blast but I'm not expecting much. Structurally...shes very sound.

Remember that she's only been in Wisconsin for the past 3 years. Otherwise she's spent her entire life out in California or Arizona. Shes 42 years old (born Oct 31, 1968.) She's not new, she will need work. But thats half the fun of a restoration, right?

Tom, Steve has agreed to come out on Sunday afternoon to take a look at it.

I feel like I'm watching an episode of "as the world turns".

I can hardly wait to see what happens next!

The tension is building.... just like in the movies.

bump, bump, baah.... I'm waiting for another buyer to come out of nowhere and add to the suspense!

I will be excited to get Steve’s report. I think this is somehow meant to be. Last night I dreamed that I had finished the car and the color was the big focal point...It was well...black on the outer appearance but it was orange underneath, kind of like translucent black with an under shadow of the factory orange but really deep. Weird.
That is not the paint job that I in vision when I am conscious.

That's good! For a second there I was going to recommend he not sell his car to you!

A Black vert could be beautiful!! I know it isn't a vert but this gives you an idea.

my 69 coupe

Of course I own 3 black cars (only 1 FGF). I wouldn't even mind painting my 85 C20 black either.

LOL...I will do the car proud, probably back to factory specs. Although carousel red wouldn't be my preference.

Carousel Red was a special order color in '69. The buyer had to come up with an additional $12.50!!

New twist to the Saga...Dad informed me last night (after a few vodkas) that he will pay for half of the car as well as the restoration...I am making my arrangements. Wiskbird...I'm in! I will look forward to Steve's report, barring any red flags from Steve, I will start to arrange to come out myself and meet you and inspect the car.

Please note; I feel it is a privilege to be on this forum and to have the opportunity to collaborate with such knowledgeable people. I have fancied myself in the past as being a Pontiac buff but it is clear to me that I have a-lot to learn. Thank you in advance also for all the help you all are about to give me. This will be my second classic Pontiac restoration as we are about 1/3 of the way done with dad's 71 GTO. (Ran in the fresh 400 on the run-in stand last night)

I have found my new project...barring any un-foreseen difficulties, Buffy the Cali. vert will be heading west to SLC for a re-birthing. I should be physically starting this project most likely spring 2012 after dad's 71 GTO is done. Mentally, I'm working!

good!

Tom it was great talking to you!

Barring Steve finding something bizarre that Im unaware of (as many times as Ive crawled inside, outside, under, over, etc. I'm not expecting anything), we should be able to meet in the next week or two, have you final inspect, and finalize the deal for Buffys trip back west.

(I feel like a Dad giving away his daughter to the groom.)

Anyway, I've just tracked down the PHS dealer invoice and AZ title and Ill be emailing you the scans shortly. I've double, triple checked, the VIN matches the title, which matches the PHS dealer invoice. So everythings set on my end.

Talk to you soon...!

Wha's Hapnen?????????? As the stomach turns.. In the days of our Lives..

SOLD!!

Tom flew from SLC to Badger land yesterday. The Mrs and I met up with him at the local gas station and I took him to see his bride to be. He was quickly all over her body and giving her subtle rubs and pokes. We looked at pictures of when she was younger, discussed her history, her health, and then we discussed her dowry. After the paperwork exchange, we celebrated by eating Butterburgers and cheese curds. (Culvers!) As Toms phone/GPS was low, we escorted him back to his hotel in Madtown where he'll fly out today. Next month he'll drive the approx 1400 miles to come take his bride home.

I'm sure the anticipation of their first night alone will be building for Tom in the coming weeks!

Ah what a start to a beautiful love story, a match made in FGF heaven. I think I'm going to cry. Congrats

LOL...I will be lurking here for quite some time for sure, I will need lots of advice I'm sure, and so far I like the company! I got my key-chain from creekbob so I feel like I'm part of the "club". My experience with Wiskbird and his lovely wife was so wonderful. (Thanks for dinner!) It was my first time to Wisconsin and first time ever traveling like that to do a car deal, after hearing some of Wiscbird's stories, I am glad it went well! I have not been a big on-line trader kind of guy and I guess there are some bad eggs! Help me stay away from those! I am very excited to get her here to Utah, a bit closer to where she was born. It looks like I will be coming back to Wisc. to pick her up in an enclosed trailer, but towing all the way there and back seems so grueling, and I hope it doesn’t wear out a truck in the process!
Here is a link to the GTO dad and I are doing... http://www.slckustoms.com/curent-projects/1971gto/1970gtobrugger.html

You may want to consider shipping in an enclosed trailer. By the time you calculate fuel, trailer rental/usage, wear and tear you may come out ahead (and a lot less tired!)

I use Intercity Lines. They are very professional, use enclosed 53' hydraulic lift trailers and because they can haul several cars on one run, as long as you have a somewhat flexible schedule you can save money as well. So far they have carried my mint '66 LeMans to its new home in San Jose, and our '68 Firebird from L.A. to Detroit.

http://intercitylines.com/