I just realized today that I already have over 4,000 miles on my '69 vert this year. While driving down the road at 70+ I was wondering if anyone has added shoulder belts to their first gen. Of course I would like them to look like they were installed at the factory. I know that the early shoulder belts were clumsey and uncomfortable and not available on convertibles. Retractors are a must.
Any ideas?
I am sure that somebody else has at least thought of this.
Any help or ideas will be appreciated. Thanks!

Here are some links I found in the past that referenced the 67-69 Camaro/Firebird's and the actual location of a shoulder belt installed on convertibles. I also think that aftermarket belts can be purchased through Jeg's and Summit, but this information was given to me through word of mouth.


http://www.camaros.org/options.shtml

http://www.camaros.org/seatbelt.shtml

http://www.camarocentral.com/product_p/int-1033.htm

My '69 convertible has factory shoulder belts. As you said, they are lacking in convenience for the driver, but to use those mounting points with a 3 point belt would be inconvenient for rear seat access.

If adding belts, be advised that the shoulder segment needs to be at least a foot longer than the lap portion to reach all the way to the buckle at the tunnel. More is better here.

Vikki, do you happen to have any close-up pictures of the mount for the shoulder belt?

I have never seen shoulder belts on a convertible. Must be a very rare option. I just assumed that they weren't available. I would like to see the mounting points too.

I stumbled upon the information while researching for a friend that was in the same situation you are. He has added a lot of HP to his convertible and felt the shoulder belts could be very beneficial at this point.

Also, I have yet to see a convertible with the factory installed shoulder belts in any convertible I have encountered.

What about an aftermarket or OE seat from another vehicle that has belts integrated into them? Of course keep the originals...seems like retrofitting a base to fit the first gen would be easier(and look better?)than screwing around with junk from Summit. And have them covered to look like the rear seats as well...just my .02

Jeff, your idea sounds better than even going back with the original convertible shoulder belt design. At least going your way you can make them retractable. At least that sounds like it would be feasible based on your suggestion.

You would have to substantially strengthened the seat mounts to make this work. The stock seat mounting is not made to withstand the force you'd put on the seat in a crash. Is that what you had in mind with retrofitting?

I'm interested in hearing what you find out about improving convertible safety. I haven't made up my mind about the best approach.

-Jim

Would there be a chance to go through the floor and into the convertible's cross brace without losing too much structurally? I was thinking an aftermarket cross brace with a little more mass.

Wouldn't be hard to reinforce the seat pans with little or no evidence of it.

Brian, that does sound like a good option using the new heavy duty brace. If not, designing a brace to weld to the floor would sound like the only option.

Has Earlybird developed any concepts for this?

I was driving home yesterday and saw a convertible with shoulder belts built into the seat. If you were not concerned about about a factory look you could get the safety and comfort all in one.

I posted a whole series of photos of the mounting points but it shows the same as at Kurt S.'s camaros.org site. The seatbelt anchor is bolted to the heavy brace that the convertible frame bolts to, using an existing bolt.

Yes, they are rare, I've only seen a handful.

I am assuming it would not be too difficult to add if a person wanted to. Vikki, what is the length of the shoulder belt? Do you know if it is the same length as the coupe shoulder belt?

It is much longer than the coupe shoulder belt, and the buckle and clip are reversed between the two (convertible shoulder portion has buckle, coupe has clip).

http://www.camaros.org/seatbelt.shtml is an excellent resource. Total shoulder portion is 48"; clip (console side) is 21".

Thanks Vikki, I will read the site in its entirety. Am I correct to assume it was a special order item?

Some pics of my installation, for your consideration.

My beast is far from original, which was one of the reasons I decided upon some new aftermarket belts.

I mostly copied what I found in an old Camaro magazine.

I installed the front belt reels on the metal "bar" that protects the convertible piston (Vikki will know the name), and admittedly, this impacts the panel that goes over top (pushed out a bit) and rear ashtrays (won't open). The reel will fit very nicely on the inside, but will prevent your piston from moving! {Don't ask how I know)

The extra bar in the trunk is due to my paranoia and complete lack of knowing what I'm doing. Doesn't interfere with anything though.

All other bolts not shown were attached at the original mounting locations.

ps: would love to get my hands on some "Mark of Excellence" stickers, but I can't find anyone who will sell them to me without the buckle as well. At 20 bucks per, I'm not willing to spend over $100 on five stickers.

I took a ride in a older chevy SUV yesterday(suburban I think). If I ever were to go with an aftermark seat in my car that one would be up there. Seat belts built in the seat and a flip down arm rest on the inside.

What sort of reinforcement is present where the belt makes the turn at the top of the door latch pillar? In the event of a crash, if not heavily reinforced this point will pull right out, leaving your shoulder and lap belts totally untensioned.

Vikki, I didn't even think about that. If there is no special bracing, or the area where the belt is attached is damaged due to the accident, the belts really will not aid in the safety of the driver/passenger.

The "kit" I bought was from wesco performance, and came with a mounting plate that fits underneath your sheet metal, and the shoulder sash bolt fits into it.

Looks like this:


That was four years ago; there may be better ideas / solutions out there now...

Slayer,
Does the kit have the belts and retractors as well??

A company called Morris Classic Concepts makes a 3 point retractable front seat belt set it says will fit a 69, does not say for a convertible but I am going to contact them after teh holiday
http://www.morrisclassicconcepts.com/

Let us know what you find out berndude.

Below is the e mail trail from my conversation with them

Bernie,
A Disclaimer wouldn't work.

We are looking into a design. but there is more that needs to be incorporated into the entire system. We design our seat belts and anchor points with the realization that someone at sometime will have their life depending on it functioning Safely. With that said we won't sell any seat belts that
we can conceivably for see anyone getting injured.We have a Convertible design that looks so good
but it has a high possibility of injury to the occupant. The occupant would be held in the seat but the stress & injury to the body is questionable.
Billy
On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:17 PM, Bernie Mock wrote:


Thanks Billy!
Can you make them for use mounting where GM mounts but give a disclaimer? There are a bunch of us out there with convertible Firebirds and Camaro's who would still be a lot safer then we are now. Or is there a chance to special order with a disclaimer? I have been told they are just a little longer then the standard units

Thanks
Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 4, 2011, at 2:53 PM, Billy Morris <morrisclassic@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Bernie,

I wish there was a place to mount the 3rd point for a Safe install.
Others will tell you to mount them in various places which is Unsafe.
A roll Bar is the only Safe way to install a 3 point in a convertible that I know of except
the way GM has drawing for them but we haven't made a set yet.

Thank You, Billy
On Sep 4, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Bernie Mock wrote:


Do you make the 3 point system for Convertible First Generation Firebirds 67-69? There are a bunch of us on the FGF website looking for them and I assume there is a bigger demand for Camaro’s

Thank you,

Bernie Mock

Thanks Bernie, can you keep us updated on any additional information you come across.

Do the belts have retractors?

Yes, the belts get retracted inside the reel. They lock in place when pulled on too hard, similar to late model seat belts. Only complaint is they're a little "touchy"; you can't try to pull them too fast, or they lock up fast. Not a big deal though; let them go back in the real a bit to unlock, and then pull them out again a bit slower the next time.

Hi, first time posting here and resurrecting a very old thread. Does anyone know if Morris every approved a kit for convertibles? Are there any other manufacturers on the market offering a good 3-point seatbelt upgrade? Thanks all.

Jimmy
1968 Firebird 350 Convertible