Boy did I screw this up. My Water pump went out on my 67 400. Did some research, found that place that rebuilds them. I go to take off the pump, did a little research on that too, guess not enough. I took off the main 4 bolts and another smaller bolt. I thought the pump would come off at this point. I got it to loosen up on the left top side, but the whole right bottom extends down as one piece. I'm not sure what I've done. Was I only supposed to split the water pump in half? Now i have to take this whole assembly off to expose the timing chain. I think I'm in over my head now. Any suggestions? How hard will it be to take this whole thing off? Any images or links to removing the water pump, or picking up where I am now?

Thanks
Hef

Just have to remove the 8 perimiter bolts.
Its mounted to the timing cover.

Yeah, the water pump is the thin part on the front. It's just a hunk of iron with an impeller. You're taking off the whole timing cover. It sounds like you already broke open the gaskets on the timing cover so at this point you have to go all the way. You need to take off the balancer to get the cover off. The bolt that holds it on gets torqued to 160 ft-lbs so it's a biach to get loose.

Thanks, I knew I had screwed up, just dont know how bad. So any good images or explanations on continuing to get the timing cover off. As you said, I have to continue as I've split it from the block.

Start on the 22nd page of this pdf file. You'll need a timing cover set (felpro makes them) and spring for the balancer repair sleeve. You may need a balancer puller as well.

http://thefirstgensite.com/library/67service/PO67S6P43_95.pdf

You may also want to replace the timing gears/chain as well...you'll be in there anyway, and pick up a fuel pump too.

I'd pull the shroud, and the radiator...this being your first attempt. Will give you plenty of room. Be prepared to change the oil as well, and heck flush the coolant out too!

Got yourself a weekend project now!

Jeff, wow, thank you very much. Already drained the radiator, and oil change is no problem. I've already done many of the steps in the document, but I was supposed to start at the Balancer. Any more detailed info on taking off the balancer (this is a part of my car that I know nothing about) I've owned this thing for 27 years, never thought about a harmonic balancer:) I know I can do this, I need to get the water pump properly taken off so I can ship it out. That will buy me a few days to get this other work accomplished. How about links or tips on all of the Gaskets I will need.

Really appreciate the help.

Thanks
Kelly

Here is the gasket set you'll need. The repair sleeve goes on the balancer due to a groove that gets worn into it over the years from the seal.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=128082

You can borrow a puller from your local parts house. You'll probably need a breaker bar or impact gun to remove the bolt and as mentioned before, the torque is 160 lb ft. Hint: leave the car in 2nd gear to keep the crank from spinning.

Here is a basic timing set, unless you want to go double roller.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=416999

Good luck and take some pictures for others in the future!

This looks like more fun every time I look at it. Really bummed, I turned a few hour job into a nightmare. Thanks for the help.

Kelly

Oh it's not that bad! I did it a few years back for the first time and got it done. Just take your time.For the balancer bolt i used a 1/2" electric torque wrench and it came right off,maybe i was lucky. Either way don't fret over it to much as there is always people to help.

Don't do what I did a couple of years ago. Try pulling the Harmonic Balancer without removing the bolt first. Broke the Balancer.

Agreed, It's not as bad as it seems. Take your time and remember how it all goes back together. Take pics along the way if you don't trust your memory. That balancer bolt is a 1 1/8 I think. Not something everybody has in the tool box. After you get the bolt out it's just a slip fit. It may take some encouragement to come off. Don't for get there are four bolts that come up through the oil pan into the bottom of the timing cover housing. Also if you do decide to do the timing chain do yourself a favor and pay very close attention to how the fuel pump eccentric is mounted. It can be confusing later. Good luck.

Thanks for the encouragement. Thanks for the tips again. I will look at it this weekend. And I will get the camera out.

I'll anticipate your next post about the balancer bolt. Use a stout socket wrench or breaker bar with a 3 foot piece of pipe. It is normal right hand threads. Since you have a 4 speed, put it in 4th gear, chock the wheels, put on the parking brake, and lean on the 3 foot pipe.

Balancer is off. You guys made it very easy. It's a 15/16 Socket. I just happened to have a deep socket 1/2 inch drive. Picked up a 3 ft piece pipe. Bolt was certainly tight, but with the pipe it came off pretty easy. Yes it was a slip fit on the shaft. The shaft is keyed. Have to get back in there to see whats left to come off.

Make sure you torque it to 160lbs.
Dont guess.

Any additional quick tips on getting the Seal out and off. Also is it necessary to remove it. If I hadn't read about it, I would just continue with removing the timing cover. It appears to be part of the cover, why do I have to remove the seal?

Sorry, quick edit here - just read the document again. Looks like no need to remove that seal to get the Timing Cover off. That is just a separate process if you need to replace the seal. Should I replace that seal after I get this off?

YESSSSS! and use the repair sleeve on the balancer if it is grooved at all...should have come with the timing set I told you about.

Thanks, I will replace the seal. I will look into the repair sleeve to see if I need it.
So I'm moving along here. Got the four bolts from below to the oil pan. Thx again, would have never seen those. They were a pain to get out, a small swivel head 7/16 ratchet would work there. Got the Fuel Pump disconnected, I guess the fuel pump will just come out with the rest of the Timing Cover.
So now all bolts are out, I think. Unless there is a bolt behind the fuel pump I dont see.
As I said in the beginning, the top left of the cover is separated from the block. It feels to me that the whole cover is flexing as I try to get it off.
Any tips on getting the cover loose at the bottom? This thing should be ready to come off.

Hef,

Take fuel pump out. Steel push rod will slide as well

There are 6 bolts holding oil pan to cover. You cannot see the ones in the back from looking at the front of the cover.

Not the best picture but you can see at the bottom there are 2 holes you have probably missed.






BTW,this cover is for sale...

6 Bolts on the bottom!! how did I miss those two? Just went out and looked, and yes they are right there. To clarify this, there are 6 bolts down there, but only 4 of them have to come out. I had taken the two far outside bolts out, but they go directly into the block, and not the timing cover.
I took out the two remaining bolts and the Timing Cover came right off. I did not take off the fuel pump. It's easy enough to take the cover off with the pump on and work on the pump when it's out.
The knowledge on this board in incredible and efficient. Thank you all.
Now the bad news. That flexing I felt was real. I cracked the timing cover. I'm sure I did this on the first day I started this. Before I posted this info. It was all bad decisions from the start. If you dont know what your doing, take the wrench out of your hand and step away from the engine!:)
Quick search and it looks like I have a lot of options for finding a replacement cover. Suggestions on reliable sources to know that I'm getting the correct fit would be appreciated.

The cover pictured above is for sale.

When I was young and tool challenged, I put a 1/2" breaker bar on the balancer nut and used the starter to break it loose.

Ready to get back to this - found a nice original number matching timing cover.

Couple of additional questions.
The gasket set on the first page here. Looks like it comes with multiple gaskets for the same thing. I assume that one of those is the Water Pump gasket. Is that true.

Is there any added value to me continuing to use the 45 year old Fuel Pump? never had any problems with it, but cheap to replace.

Also, the timing cover I found came with a GM water pump. I always assumed the WP on my car was original, but this one is different. Says GM and has a casting number on it. Anyone know what the right WP number for my 67 would be?

I could also use any advise on the best gasket adhesive.

thanks
Hef

finally getting this thing back together. Anyone know what the two larger black O Rings are for that came with the kit on the first page of this thread? The one smaller black ring is for the port recess in the block. I ok with that. The two larger ones I have no idea. Wouldnt make since to cement them in the cover on the water ports. Any Ideas?
Also the kit came with a bag with two small blue hard plastic bushings. No idea what they are for either.

BTW I had ordered a replacement fuel pump from Rock Auto. They shipped a pump that looks nothing like the pump on my car. The main fuel inlet is 180 degrees off, and it only had one additional hose port. My car (no AC) has two hoses coming off plus the main fuel port. I'm using the old fuel pump, never had a problem with it. Rock Auto had no clue on what I really need. Any ideas on a replacement.
Thanks

Suggest you go to somebody who understands Firebirds and concentrates on their parts (as opposed to selling Camaro parts for Firebirds) for your fuel pump. You need a pump with the 1/4 inch vapor return line in addition to the fuel inlet port.

Try Ames Performance.

Find a parts store with an old guy who's been there/done that.
Can you post a pic of the timing cover/water pump and gasket kit?
May be able to help ya step by step from there.

pic of the gasket kit is linked on the first page of this thread. I'm coming to the conclusion that this kit is just made universal. It has 3 options for the water pump alone. So I'm pretty sure the two larger O rings are not needed.
Thanks for the fuel pump tip. AMES shows this but lists is as 400 with AC.
https://secure.amesperf.com/qilan/Detail...mp;web_access=Y

the two other rubber sleeves are for 11 bolt pumps, 69 and up...

Thanks, my kid and I got her done. Those 6 small bolts underneath that hold the oil pan are a PITA! Other than that, the biggest word of advice is that small longer bolt at the top, with the bracket on it, really serves a major purpose. It pulls the whole things in tight so you can get the bolts lined up. I had forgotten about that bolt, and after I snugged it up, the other bolts lined up nice.
Should be able to finish this job up tomorrow. Have to find a Torque wrench, and get everything put together. Get some oil and anti freeze back in there, hope it fires up.