I need some help REALLY BAD! MY oil pan is touching the frame on my 1969 Firebird w/400 transmission.
I have already: -replaced engine mounts -checked transmission mount (looks new and in place correctly) - We also shimmed-up the engine with (2) 1/8" and still touching, unless they fell out of place. - NOW, we can't figure-out why it's stll touching. Help
BACKGROUND: I bought the car in Louisiana about 9-months ago and it was about 90% complete. Before that the car was under restoration in Ohio, where the engine was rebuilt and installed. I recently decided to get new exhaust installed and we noticed the oil pan on the frame. We decided that the engine mount on the right side looked broken, so we replaced them both, Afterwards the oil pan is still on the frame. We checked the tranmission mount and it appears to be thr right one and everything loks good.
ANALYSIS: I'm having a hard time beliveing that the car received the wrong engine mounts in Ohio several years back and no one noticed, then years later I bought the car in Louisana and we too put the wrong engine mounts (purchased from Car Quest). I'm at a lost here and not sure whre to turn to.
The 400 engine is original to this car. I was able to verify the last 6 of the VIN etched in the front of the block. ALso, I don't think the mount to frames have ever been replaced because of the cars history.
MORE BACKGROUND: The interesting thing about this car is it was sold in 1969 right outside Los Angeles. It remained there until 1980 when it had a carb fire (contained to engine bay only, thanks God). It stayed laid-up in the desert until 2001, when it was trucked to Ohio and the partial renovation started. Moved to Louisiana by Ohio owner, never fully completed (90-95% complete) and sold to me. EVERYTHING is practically original and the previous owner was a 27-Firebird car owner and Pontiac diehard. Also ran it past him and he knew that everything was original. It was somewhat of a tmecapsule, the undercarriage is untouched, interior (along with the original seat covers), and matching numbers on all my parts. Therefore, the engine mounts to frame all appear to be correct, nicely aged, and match the other sub-frame components.
QUESTIONS: - I know that there a specific engine mount for the 1969 400. All the catalogs show a single mount for all Pontiac 350 engines from 1967-69. So, a different engine mount doesn't seem right either, becasue it looks differenet and probably fits different. - Has anyone seen the "Frame" engine mounts fail before? They appear to be steel and I can't imagine them going bad either, but I'm not sure.
Again, I'm lost and VERY AFRAID that serious damage will occure if I can't fix this. I appreciate any help and all your advice. Please fell free to call me or emial me, if you care rather than responding back on the forum.
its a long shot but possibly the oil pan is different then the original. if the mounts are in correctly and there is only one way the frame brackets can be installed then the pan is the likely it. but the mounts could be for a different car body. the steel mount would not fail unless a accident occured. my quess is check the pan first and then look at the mounting of the mounts next. yes dont drive it..
The new repo motor mounts are notorious for this. Your 1/8" shims may not be enough. I think I used either 3/8" or 5/16". Before the shims, my oil pan was hitting, and the fan would have hit the bottom of the shroud. Check your fan clearance at the top and bottom of the shroud and see if it looks like the motor should move up more or if they are close to even.
Where'd you get the 3/8" and 5/16" shims from? Should I attempt a different 69 "400" motor mount? Like I said, the new ones can=me from Car Quest, who knows where the previous owner got his from (and they hit too). Should I look to a Classic Industries product or do you think they will be all the same?Thanks for the advice.
I hate to break the news, but your time capsule doesn't date back to '69 becuse you have a post '69 pan. Maybe the engine, and many other things, but not the pan.
There have been multiple pans since then. All will bolt to any sibling V8 without interface problems, but there are (or is) a pan that will not work on the fgf. I don't know which, who, where, or when, but this has been a problem that has been around since the days when the guy at the junkyard cracked open the Hollander Interchange manual, to see wtf was up.
I'm sure that's quite possible, but everything on the engine is stock to include: intake & exhaust manifolds, valve covers, fan...etc. No doubt, possible, but if you're going to swap the oil pan, why not modify/swap other parts as well? Again, I just need to find the right fix. Hoping
The oil pan did occur to me, but everything else is in place. I wish it was as simple as an aftermarket oil pan and just rip it off the car.
Tried to research the Hollander Interchange manual, no luck on information, only manual sales. Will it show a specific part number for a 69 Firebird with a 400? Or just engine swap information for mechanics/junk yards?
There was no specific mount used for 69 FB 400's. Same as all 67-69 FB V8's. Also mtg brkts. Had pontiac o/pan's from 65-78 in 2-68 FB's. None touched. There are 4(2-upr/2-lwr ea side)steel mtg brkts correct? Should only have about an 1-1.5" between back of engine and firewall. My guess its the trans x-member and/or trans mnt push'n the rear of engine/trans up. Be'n original x-mbr(not for bbc/sbc), i'd try removing mount and see how it is just on support. The engine will rock back into firewall.
This has been a problem that surfaces quite alot(well everytime someone replaces motor mounts anyway). My buddy just went through this on his 69. He noticed the issue when installing his new long branch mans. He thought the Mity Mounts might solve the problem. After installation and warming the car up in the driveway he noticed smoke coming from the right side. Looked down and the new MM was on fire. I think he ended up shimming his 1/8". My suggestion would be to try to get your hands on some NOS GM MMs. This should fix the problem. My guess is the replacements are just not as thick as the originals. Other than that shimming is probably your best option.
i have carquest mounts they have been on for 6yrs and they are fine. there are only two things that would cause it; mounts and pan. i vote for the pan. the dude could have mixed up the pans by mistake.
Not sure if the same thing is going on with mine, but I did smell something odd on the Pass Front side of the car today after driving it and couldn't figure it out. It wasn't terribly bad, but surely something new was going on. Just wondering IF it could be my right mount burning up too. I'll have to check that out. Thanks.
I was thinking of ripping the Car Quest mounts out, because I was thinking they were manufactured a bit too short and made slightly shorter. Then, I was going with a name brand "Classic Industries" or "Year One" or "Ames Performance" engine mount. I was hoping this would do it and make the difference.
I guess I can locate the NOS mounts and another pan. Not sure where to get a 69 "400" oil pan with a guarantee that it's not from a 2nd generation or newer. I'd hate to get into this again. Lifting the engine is getting to be a real pain!
Had the same issue with my car (I have a reproduction oilpan.) Tried some NAPA mounts and Mity Mounts and didn't make any difference. Ended up just making a couple of shims out of 1/4" steel to put in between the mounts. Still tight but nothing rubs anywhere.
-=>Lee<=- Due to budget constraints the "light at the end of the tunnel" has been turned off!
Definately check on that right side mount. My buddy was lucky. He was running the car in the driveway and then he pulled it into the garage before he saw the smoke. It turned out alright but it doesn't take much to light a car up under the hood and inside your garage is the last place you want to have that happen
AND FINALLY.....We have lift-off. Thanks for all the help with the forum. We shifted one of the shims over and added another, then put one shim by the transmission mount and have about 5/16" clearance. It's about time. Again thanks for all the help. Now, I can jump on something else now.
After a VERY long and aggrevating trial and error period on the engine mounts. I did solve the problem with Mity Mounts. yes, they are rather expensive, but they worked! I have the clearance I need and it never settled back down. I highly recommend them to everyone. I will never install anything else but at this point. Thanks goodness the il pan didn't bust on me before I replaced the mounts with Mity Mounts.
