Took my 67 out today for it's first run in about 9 months and ran into some issues. I got the car started, cruised for about 30 minutes (55-60 mph), and started heading back toward the house. I pulled up to an excessively long stop light and the car stalled while I was waiting on the light to change and refused to start again. The engine sputtered a few times before giving out, so I suspected a fuel problem. I removed the air cleaner and cycled the carb a few times to see if there was any fuel there. Nothing. Next, I decided to pull the fuel line off the carb. Bone dry. After waiting about thirty minutes for a tow truck to show up (thanks to Hagerty), I decided to try it again. The starter cranked the car over 6 or 7 times and it started. Ran fine all the final two miles home and I shut the car off for about 5 minutes. I started the car again, managed to back up and start pulling forward when it stalled and refused to start again. Same sputter as before. Fine, I'll Fred Flintstone it in.

The car ran great up until it started doing this. It was about 80 degrees here today, but the coolant temp never went above 180. Am I experiencing vapor lock, or is there something more going on here? Car ran perfect before I put it away. Could I have sucked something into the fuel filter that would be causing this? I did stop after my 30 minutes of cruising to top the tank off, but had no problems getting it started again.

Other info:
400, e-brock intake and carb, one inline filter between carb and fuel pump, manual transmission, aluminum radiator, 19" clutch fan

Thanks for your help.

-Brent

I had a similar issue with an old Fold PU. Turned out to be the fuel pump. Ran for a few miles and then gave up again. You might try holding your thumb over the fuel line and seeing if you develop pressure.

I'm with hokie. Sounds like the way a fuel pump goes out to me.

Well, that's both good and bad news I suppose. I guess I'm relieved. Vapor lock seems to be one of those things you can't really control.

As long as I'm replacing the pump anyway, has anyone tried the trick of using a 455 SD (73-74?) fuel pump? I don't remember where I read about it (maybe on this site), but it supposedly has a larger fuel bowl. The downside is, you have to get the SD fuel line as well.

Thanks again folks!

Do you already have the return line? If so you should be good to go.

Yikes! Didn't even think about the return line. I can't say for sure, but I don't think I have one. Sounds like I'd be better off just running the stock pump rather than go through the trouble to run a return line and install a different sending unit. Of course, having a return line would help keep the fuel temps down and help with vapor lock problems. Decisions, decisions...

sure its delivery? could you have gotten water (humidity) in the tank while it sat for 9 months? did you put fresh gas in it? water could be lower as gas floats, and when running down , water could get mixed in? just guessing here....but something to think of.

I would start with a $6 bottle of Star Tron first. You can always go to plan "B" of replacing the fuel pump after that.

Today's ethanol gas and 9 months sitting = problems

http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/93/123/lang,en/

Agree
Todays gas eats up all rubber fuel lines and vacuum lines and caps. Also older rubber carburetor accelerator pumps.

Definitely food for thought. Here's my thought process: Either I vapor locked, the fuel filter clogged, or the fuel pump is going bad. I didn't have any issues until after I stopped and filled the tank up. The 9 month old gas ran through OK. I'm also thinking since that upper line didn't have any fuel in it, the problem occurred somewhere before that point.

Just out of curiosity, is the diaphragm in the fuel pump made out of rubber as well?

At any rate, the fuel pump, some new rubber lines, and a new filter aren't that expensive. Just have to find the time to take care of all of that.

that piece of info makes me suspect bad gas....maybe from the bottom of a dirty tank or such....your car may be ok, get rid of the gas , clean filter etc, fill up new...

Pull the fuel filter and see whats in there...

You can always run a hose from the pump to a gallon container of gas to narrow it down.

The plot thickens...

Drove the Bird again today. Drove for about 30 minutes at slower speeds (25-35mph) and everything was fine. Until I stopped to open the garage door that is. Got out of the car, opened the garage door and as I was walking back to the car I could tell the idle was dropping and it was starting to sputter again. At most, the car was sitting still for a minute. Before I managed to get the car into the garage it sputtered and died again. Same symptoms as before. Wouldn't start and no fuel in the line between the filter and carb. I couldn't get the filter off without destroying the line that's on it.

Just thought I'd give you guys the whole story.

Going to pickup some parts in the next couple of days. Is the Airtex 40590 a decent fuel pump? NAPA 40590

Thanks again for all the help and info. Definitely lots to think about. I'll keep you updated as things progress.

Kind of a silly question. The engine is actually a 1973 X4 block with 4X heads. Should I be trying to track down a fuel pump for a '73 Firebird instead? Is there enough difference that I'll mess myself up trying to cram a '67 fuel pump onto a '73 block? The pump that is there now has an outlet for a return line, but it's been blocked off.

Yr doesnt matter.
Just make sure in/out lines in correct location.

Fuel pumps eigher work or they don't. There is a slim chance that it's the pump, but I would bet money the pump is good. My next step would be inspect the fuel pump eccentic to make sure that it bolted down correctly. You are going to pull the fuel pump anyway, so it ain't as if you are tearing into something you haven't decided to do. Then again, I don't do things like other people do.

If you decide to check it, there are plenty of people who are waiting in line to help show you how; I'm pretty much done working on cars around here.

These problems can turn your hair grey fast.

Has the tank ever been replaced?
Has the sock on the fuel sending unit ever been replaced?
Has the fuel line ever been replaced?
What about the rubber lines?
Is the in line filter flowing?

Based on what you discribed it sounds like the carb was not getting any gas when it stalled?

I wonder if you have a bunch of debrie in the tank that could be cloging the sock filter? It get stired up and starves the pump? Wait a while and the debrie falls to the bottom of the tank. Just a theory.

I hate messing with fuel problems. I upgraded my fuel system in stages and it would have just been better to do it all at once. I have a new tank with RobbMc pick up. 1/4 return line. 1/2 supply line. Stock fuel pump. This system works well for me.

I've had pumps go out intermitten for a couple of weeks before it totally gave up. But it could be other issues too. the pump is fairly easy to do and not that expensive. Beats dropping the tank if you don't have to. While you're buying your pump make sure you get enough new hose to replace the 3 old ones(one by the tank, one pass side front, one by the pump). Just a good idea.

I've only had the car for two years, so I can't say for sure on any of those items. I'd venture a guess that the rubber lines and inline filter were replaced when the car underwent a partial restoration (5+ years ago). Just from a few of the other problems I've ran across, I'd bet the tank, sending unit, and hard lines have not been replaced recently. It's interesting seeing some of the corners that were cut to do a quick resto on this car.

I too dislike messing with fuel issues and this isn't a problem I was anticipating. I'll probably be moving in the next couple of months and I'll have to ship the car. I'd like to be able get the car on and off the transport without issue. This particular problem is frustrating because it happens with no warning. By the time the car starts to sputter, it's too late. There's no saving it.

I'm planning on going to a fuel injection setup when I get the time and have some money set aside for it. The whole fuel system will be fresh from front to rear that way, plus I'll have the added benefits of fuel injection. Really trying to find a way to keep the electric pump in the tank though. I've read reviews on the Spectre (sp?) EFI-ready tanks and it sounds like they have problems with fuel gauge accuracy.

All that aside, is there an easy way to check the eccentric while I have the pump off (as Amervo suggested)?

I had a problem with sudden fuel issues in early 70s, in an Opel GT....car would die...start right up, and drive another 14 days , or shut down 5 minutes later..very frustrating ,esp in 5 oclock traffic in middle lane on a freeway overpass (hill)....eventually we found it.

the carb on a Opel GT had a male connection to a rubber fuel line that was pressed on over the enlarged end.
a prev owner had replaced the rubber line , cut it with a pair of pliers...the inside had a small piece that was probably partially loose when he installed it, when pushed on to the male connector , it severed, the little piece now loose by itself inside the rubber line....it would twirl inside the fuel line in the fuel stream, some times get right in front of the opening ,where it was too big to get in, shut the flow off..then you start up, it could cut flow off right away, or could twirl around in there , as it fit fine inside the rubber line, for minutes ,days or sometimes weeks.
But problem got solved...sometimes issues are caused by very tiny problems.

Thats just like the operation of a check valve, that reminds me that the fuel filter inside the quadrajet had a built in check valve. It supposed to keep the fuel in the fuel bowl and not running back down to the tank for easy starting.

That sounds like a familiar story. I once had a piece of rubber fuel line sliced off the inside that made it all the way into one of my jets in the bottom of the carb. Car idled fine but wouldn't get out of it's own way. Bought a kit and when I opened the top and could see there it was sticking out. Rebuilt it anyway but probably didn't need it. Still runs flawlessly.

there may be easier ways but this is what I would do.

1. Replace the fuel pump. Not that hard or expensive.
2. pull the carb to fuel line off and blow it out
3. Open the carb top and check for crap in the bowl. This may give some clues of the condition of the gas tank. Make sure you have a replacement gasket for the carb. You state this is a ebrock carb. They have a lot of bowl for gas so you shouldn't have fuel starvation issues like most due with quadrajets.
4. Drop the fuel tank. Its not as bad it sounds. The less gas you have the better. Pull the sending unit and check the sock condition.
5. Blow out the fuel line from tank to fuel pump.

It seems the problem is heat related. Replaced the fuel pump, rubber lines, and filter and took her for a spin today. Drove for about 80 miles (mostly at highway speeds) and never had a problem. It was about 70* today. Pulled back into the garage and idled for a couple of minutes to watch the temperature. As the gauge reached the 180* mark, the engine started to sputter. I shut it off before it had a chance to die. I'm thinking that gauge is probably incorrect, particularly since it never reads above 170* while driving. That aside, I think I'm going to get a dual line sender and a return line. Not the most fun upgrade to do, but I'd like to be able to pull up to a stoplight and not worry whether the engine is going to stall or not. On the plus side, it will give me a chance to checkout what condition the tank is in and blowout all the fuel lines.

Thanks again for all you help! I'll try to post another update, but it may be awhile, as the Bird and I are relocating.

If I recall correctly, if you decide to use a factory return line, it crosses the engine cradle. therefore the engine needs to be lifted up out of the way to locate properly.

I remember making a mental note to have the fuel lines in before I reinstall the motor.

I was worried about that. Looking around on this site and at some diagrams, I'm having a tough time of deciphering the routing. I'd hate to buy a new line and not be able to get it routed properly. Can anyone describe the return line routing to me or maybe post some photos that show it? Has anyone tried to place a factory fuel return line with the motor in place?

I suppose if push came to shove, I could just make my own lines.

look on Vikki's site for the assembly manuals. You may find it there in the library.

www.thefirstgensite.com

I don't recall the routing other than they both ran along the passenger side.

I just did all of this work this weekend for a similar reason; I thought that my car was running out of fuel (starving/cutting out going up hills, seemed to void fuel pickup around corners, etc.). I had put in a new tank, sending unit, fuel line, fuel pump, etc. when I got the car running last fall; my non-AC car originally had the 1/4" return line (removed/destroyed when doing frame-up resto), but none of the repo parts places listed the 1/4" return line sending unit, fuel line, pump, etc. so I didn't put them in last fall.

Long story short, I ended up replacing the sending unit, pump, etc. AND installing the 1/4" return line this weekend. Didn't need to lift the engine (400ci) to route the line under the pulleys, just needed to disconnect the battery cables & remove the lower radiator hose from the pump. Going back to the tank, I had to remove e-brake line AND loosen the forward leaf spring shackle cover (to route the line under it). All day job (including siphoning the tank), but not too difficult. Not sure how hard it would be to route the actual fuel line, as it is much stiffer.

Hope this helps.

Jeff V.

I think that you ought to conduct some tests before you start tearing your car apart.

The line from the tank to the pump is an easy test as a stand alone component, the pump is an easy test as a stand alone component, and the pump to carb line is an easy test as a stand alone component.

(If you had a problem between the tank and pump, a couple of cranks wouldn't even begin to get fuel to the carb.)

If all this checks out, the only offender left is the fuel pump eccentric, but there I go thinking again.

Do whatever you want because I already said my told-you-so. If you choose some other method to determine the problem, I hope I'm eating crow becaus it would major suck if I hit it on the head. Major suck for you becuse it isn't my problem, and all I'm trying to do is point you in the right direction, none of which will cost you a dime to determine.

I also have the same problem, after running for 10 to 15 minutes the fuel disappears in the filter(I have a see thru filter)I go into vapor lock when I idle, the engine get's warm,
My fuel pump eccentric is newly installed, replaced Tank, sending unit and new fuel lines. I am working on it at this moment.

Amervo,

I'm willing to check all of those things out and will do so before I drop the tank. Trust me, I'm not looking forward to doing that.

As far as the fuel lines go, would you just blow them out, making sure there's good flow, or would you also cap off one end, pressurize the line and check for leaks?

I asked before, but I suppose I'll try again. What's the procedure for checking the fuel pump eccentric? Short of taking everything off the front of the motor to get a real good look at it, I'm unsure of the proper way to check it.

What's got me boggled is why the problem doesn't happen all the time. I can drive down the road for hours and not have so much as a hiccup, but I can't sit at a light for a couple of minutes with serious issues. Frustrating to say the least.

I have the same problem. For me it was vapor lock if i sit in traffic. My thermo reads 200 and then it's time to move or pull over and wait thirty minutes. I just had my car shipped out to me after ~20yrs and the temp issue is going to be resolved!!! (I hope). I just ordered a new high flow water pump and diverter plate from Ames as well as a high torque starter (issue #2 = hot start).

If you still believe it is fuel related I would check your fuel pressure with a vac gauge before doing all that other stuff. Could be something related to the accelorator pump? Not sure what carb you have.

you have a see thru plastic filter, or glass......I would get rid of it ,as if it cracks...booom.
anyway I had a see thru filter long ago too...after car warmed up, you never saw gas in it, car ran fine...so the filter is not a 'give away' to find problem.

I opened up the front of the engine today, I wanted to check the timing chain, thought maybe it jumped, check the timing on it again, all good, eccentric was tight and inplace, did find the balancer seal was bad, and the water pump had over a 1/4 of space between impeller and back plate, also found the round gromment that goes around between the back plate and timing cover was out of place. Tomorrow I'm gonna set the ignition timing and replace the tsat and if problem continues I'm gonna look at the radiator.
I understand about the fuel filter and no fuel in it, it is also glass, what do you recommend for a good filter?

I went with this one. Edelbrock 8131

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-8131/

It limited the amount of rubber involved and I think it might be better at reducing vapor lock, at least in my head it is.

So what is the popular opinion on preventing vapor lock?

Fuel line?
Fuel pump from 70's 455 + fuel line?
Heat shielding?
Float levels?
Return fuel line?

I have fuel while driving... but it evaporates or backs out (or both) when I park the car hot. I have my key turned & started engaged for 10 - 25 seconds to start the car again after sitting a bit after a hot park.

Make sure your fuel line is not in contact with any portion of the engine that is hot. Install the proper 400 fuel lines (supply and return line). You will need this as well for your tank.

http://www.rickscamaros.com/camaro-gas-tank-sending-unit-3-8-with-1-4-return-line-1969.html

All good advice! The only thing I may add is tank venting. 67's & 68's vent through the gas cap, so make sure you have a vented cap. Also if you replace your lines, try and go with stock ones, I just resolved a problem due to some bad advice from a shop that offered to 'custom bend' me a set, and I ended up with too many radical bends and a few flat spots.

Nice paint job TR709. What color blue is that? When I respray mine I will go back to the stock Nordic Blue.