I have a '69 coupe with a 350. I'm looking to replace the whole exhaust from the engine back...so headers and an exhaust system. I'm trying to do this somewhat inexpensively. Also the simpler the better. I have a welder...but I'm not very good.

Anyone have any suggestions of systems they've installed that they particularly like? Or, any systems that they really didn't like??

I'm not really looking for a ton of noise...but some is OK. The engine is basically stock, and not high performance. I don't really care much about stock appearance on this car either. So, I'm pretty open on systems. I think I'm looking for one that is low cost and really easy to install.

Any suggestions?

(BTW, I tried the search feature, as I imagine this isn't the first time someone's asked this...but I don't have much luck with that. I get ton's of unrelated posts instead).

i have headman headers and a flowmaster dual 2.5 inch exhaust with 40's .Its kinda loud though.

I see a lot of 'used' headers on craigslist. Not sure why people go away from them, but maybe a way to go on the cheap.

Otherwise, there are sellers on epay that sell entire systems for under $300 if you want to go more 'stock' appearance. Do you still have the stock manifolds?

I don't know why I didn't think of ebay. I guess I was afraid of buying something that didn't fit well. I've had mit-or-miss experinces with some ebay sellers in that regard. But I'll have to comb through there.

No stock manifolds. There are headers on the car now. They are pretty rusted and really banged up. Looks like someone in the past had to dent and bang the heck out of them to get them to fit. I have leaks all over this system from stem to stern, and it's pretty well rusted out. I've been patching it together for a while just to get the car on the road again. But it's getting to the point where I want to finish up the exhaust...among many other things (hence the frugality).

Don't count out local muffler shops for something like this. Here in Indiana I have a favorite muffler shop that created me a full brand new 2.5" custom bent dual system, with a crossover and two 50 series Flowmasters. $304.35 parts, labor, and tax, fully welded, excellent quality...and I never had to even get my hands dirty...

This was not a fluke...I've used them many times over the years for other projects and always am greeted with the exact same high quality/low price. And originally I was referred there by other equally satisfied gearheads.

I know this is too far for you, but for anyone in Indiana, this little shop is called Mufflers & More, in Westfield, Indiana. Don't expect chit-chat and friendliness. All business.

Like you, I was shopping high and low for a system to install myself, having completed all my own frame rail/floor replacements. Then I called this shop for a verbal quote, 68 Fbird convertible, 2.5", duals with crossover, pair of DynoMax mufflers to fit. The dude just gruffly told me "we're a Flowmaster dealer". Then silence.

OK...I'm not brand loyal...I then ask "so how about same system with a pair of Flowmaster 50's." They told me "about $275."

long pause. that can't be right.

I said...INSTALLED?!"

"Yeah."

Heck, I'm thinkin'...I can't even BUY a system for that price, much less go thru the headache of installing...so what have I got to lose?! So I made an appointment, trailered my open-manifold machine over there, and dropped it. Later that day I picked it up. When they apologized that the bill came in $30 over quoted budget due to difficulty working around my custom subframe connectors and drop crossmember...I didn't blink an eye and I let them know I was still VERY very satisifed!!

Of course this doesn't get your header problem solved, but after you find some headers and get them bolted on, make some phone calls and see what some local shops will bend up for ya...you might be pleasantly surprised.

I hadn't really considered a muffler shop. There is a custom exhaust shop in town that I stopped in to see during lunch. He said he'd be about $1200, including headers. That's a bit much for me, so he's out.

On the Summit site, I found a set of Hooker headers (4902HKR) for $219.95 (just black painted finish) and Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust set (17139) for $439.95. I think Flowmaster is probably a bit louder than ideal for me...but I think I'll be OK with it. So all told that's about $660, with free shipping. I looked around on ebay and didn't see much. What I saw was a little more.

I recall Vicki (yellowbird) saying she was very happy with this system. Said it had no drone on the highway.

Gardner Exhaust in New York State

http://www.gardnerexhaust.com/1969-firebird-exhaust-system.html

I just installed the Hooker Comp headers from Summit for the $219 price. I really like that there was no need for denting them to get them to fit around the steering, Z-bar, starter or anywhere else. Rally thick flange and tubes, Thicker than the others in that price range, but not as thick as a Doug's header. In my opinion, that was a great deal for these headers. Then a local muffler shop created a transition section between my existing duals to the new headers. About $100.

Boater...

How low do those drag the ground? Guess I'm curious how visible they are below the rockers from a profile view.

I haven't bottomed out or scraped with these headers. Because they are not the giant 1 3/4" tubes, there is more clearance around everything and don't hang too low either. The bottom of the header flange is about 1" or less below the bottom of the subframe at most.

That doesn't sound bad at all. So many headers make the car look like it has big knuckles dragging the ground and I dislike that.

I stuck with my factory logs for now, but they are questionble...not sure how much life is left in 'em. I might have to keep these in mind if I change to headers someday. Too bad I see coating as pretty much mandatory...and coating cranks the price of the same $219 headers up to $499...in which case I might as well just spring for the RARE long branchers at $638/pair coated and far more original...in which case I might as well just offer my first born up for sale or trade...

If only money grew on trees...

Thanks for the report. And sorry for the hijack, jsheperd77...

Flowmaster also makes cheaper kit 17129 which I think the only difference from the 17139 is it doesn't have stainless tips.

Also, check Amazon. They most times have cheaper prices than Summit on thier Flowmaster exhaust systems (same part numbers as what summit advertises).

I just bought the 2.5" all stainless tube Flowmaster kit 817129 for $383 from Amazon where Summit wanted $440.

Good tip. I hadn't thought of Amazon.

I ended up buying from Summit, but I'll have to remember that next time. Summit had free shipping, and there were a few other items I picked up too. And they sure were fast...it'll be here tomorrow!

I intially hadn't thought of Amazon either, but now I have a habit of whatever I am going to buy (from any store), googling the part number and seeing if it is cheaper somewhere that is still accessible. Just takes a second and saves a bunch of coin. I saved about $700 on the tool boxes I just bought. Same brand and model, just different store.

As for shipping, I didn't have to consider that since I have Amazon Prime, its free shipping.

I did the Hooker comp ceramic. $500, a boatload more than the painted, but the thermal coating makes a huge difference under the hood.

You cannot install the same high-quality level exhaust that you can get at your local custom shop. Guess what? It's ten times cheaper for ten times the super pos garbage diy systems.

Minus the headers, this system cost $300. My part of the install was hanging out at harbor freight for a couple of hours.

The mufflers are summit house brand, the pair for $50. You cannot install your own for $350, and it will look like hell no matter how good of a job you do. Sorry to be offensive against the chosen children in the pipe world, but they all are very shoddy looking systems.

By the way, the car has lived in that exact same spot since 2005. Notice the drips on the floor?

Not certain I understand the comparison. For $380, I bought the stainless flowmaster kit. So for the extra $80 over your kit I have Flowmaster mufflers (that's a matter of taste, but I happen to like the sound), 409 stainless tubes and muffler cases (I'm making an assumption that yours is aluminized mild steel, but I could be wrong), and all of the bends are mandrel bent. Local shops use compression bends so the diameter of the tube gets compromised during bends so the exhaust breathes at the smallest diameter (depending on where the compression is because as the gas cools the diamater of the pipe can be reduced with no degredation in power). Most all systems are made from 16ga tubes, so that's a wash. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your system, I'm just stating what I get with the extra money I paid (or in your mind wasted). Actually, the difference in cost is less than the difference between your mufflers and the Flowmasters (again, sound is a personal preference for each individual owner). Yes I have to bolt in the hangers into existing holes on the frame and body, but its a matter of 8 bolts.

All I am saying is keep an open mind. There are many different ways to accomplish something. I for one, like to do all my own work. (Turning wrenches and using a mig is not exactly brain surgery) Not everyone does, but I get a sense of satisfaction from it and a its a stress releif. Others would rather pay and not have the hassle. To each their own. But to say the diy systems are "POS garbae", please provide examples. If you know of issues with the kits myself and jshepard are using, I'm sure we would both like to know so we can understand. But just because you got something different (i.e. not a direct comparison) for less money, doesn't mean that everything you didn't buy is garbage.

What about clamp vs. welding? I have a flux core wire welder (no gas) that I've played around with on a few projects. I'm not very good at welding yet, but getting better all the time. The system I bought is mild steel and not paper thin, so I could weld it. The problem is I don't really know now to do it. Do you get everything just right on the car, then tack it, and then bring it down and finish on the ground (car is on a lift)?

I was planning on clamps, but this just got me thinking that maybe I'll try welding it. It wouldn't be pretty...but no one sees the underside of the car but me.

My real concern is leaks. Can a beginner welder do this kind of a job?

I'm not going to the local muffler shop...they want $600 just to put my system on. They are known around here for gouging people.

A good weld is the best for combating leaks, but a pourous weld can be frustrating in trying to figure out exactly where the leak is. A major leak will be easy to find, but a small one is a bit more difficult and still sounds bad. If I were you I would get some small pieces from the auto parts store and practice on them to see if you are comforatable with welding the pipes. Generally you would tack everything in place on the car, then either remove if you can, or at least drop it down so you can weld the top of the pipes. The Flowmaster kit uses a sloted pipe (to allow for a smaller ID/OD difference betwee the 2 pipes)and a narrow band clamp. That clamp system it much better than the old style saddle clamp. The old style, as you tightend the clamp you put a depression in the tube. The trick was to get tight enough to make sure the pipes don't come apart, but not so much that it distorts the metal enough to create leaks. The band clamps squeeze around the entire diameter (more or less) of the tube. 3" wide band clamps are available which seal even better than the 1" wide.

One thing to keep in mind though is serviceability. If you weld it in solid, it's very difficult to remove. If you have to do trans work or other issues under the body, it may be in your way. Myself, my system will be in and out a couple of times since I am still in process of restoring/modifying my car. For the present time, I will weld the front pipes to the h-pipe, but then clamp it to the muffler so I can drop the entire h-pipe when I do my trans swap. When I am all said and done, I will probably weld a serviceable flange to the h-pipe at the muffler and weld the muffler solid to the tailpipe.

That's a decision you have to make based on where you are with your car's progress and what you anticipate for accesability in the future.

My kit doesn't have that clamp setup. My kit has the old style clamp setup.

Good call on the serviceability issue. I like your plan to use a combination of welds and flanges to make some sections removable. I've had my engine and transmission out and I think they're about done as far as restoration goes...but you never know.

I hear you guys on the header flange drag situation. Ive got headmen headers with a custom exhaust with cross over thats been on the car for 15 years. Im about sick and tired of always worrying about draging the flanges on speed bumps and steep angled entrances to parking lots. Im about to pull the whole system of and go with the long branch manifolds and the same type of custom exhaust with the cross over

I've got Headman long tube headers and have never had them drag. But I have very stiff front springs to account for lowering the front 2". I just went and looked, my header flange sits about 3/4" - 1" below the frame rail. Is that typical of what your guys' set up is?

Sorry for the delayed response! I draged my [censored] under the car after work today, and measured the distance from the floor to the flange. A big respectable 4 1/2" Ya it's time to back to a more original set-up

My car is up on jack stands at the moment so I can't measure ground clearance to the header flange, but as mentioned in my post above, my flange only sticks down about 3/4"-1" below the frame rail. It's tucked up there pretty well. I will measure my ground clearance once the car is back on its rubber, but that is a function of ride height. I was wondering how your flange relates to your frame rail. That's a fixed dimension that is not affected by ride height.

If I'm understanding the terminology correctly, the exhaust, including the flange connecting the longbranch manifold to the front pipe(s) is about 5 inches off the floor, tucked up about 1/2 inch above the frame at 4 1/2 inches off the floor. I only measured the left side.

I can't think it would be good to have the exhaust have to absorb the full shock of hitting something underneath.

Thanks Jim. If I understand your post correct, you have long branch manifolds, and not headers. Is that correct? Yes, I agree with you that it is not a good thing for the exhaust flange to stick below the frame rail. My comment was that I just have never had an issue bottoming it out either driving or even loading onto my trialer that has a dove tail in the back (other cars I have loaded on that bottom all the time). That got me to wonder whether one brand of tubular header may provide more clearance than others, or if I have just been lucky so far.

Yes, mine has longbranch.

My bottoming out concerns come from the experience of years of daily driving mine. The clearance on these cars is not good. Straddling road debris, deep snow and ice chunks (of course not a problem anymore), speed bumps, and more have all had mine scrape bottom. The worse hit came when I went over an ice chunk and the thing struck the flywheel cover, smashing it into the gear teeth. Nothing needed replacement but the cover but it sure made a racket until I could get the car home.

I just finished installing the Hooker Comp Headers and the Flowmaster exhaust (from earlier in the thread). The header collector flange sticks down about 1.5 inches from the frame rail. On the ground I measured about 6.5 inches of clearance...probably will be more like 6 with my fat butt in there.

Incidentally, the install of the exhaust was unbelievably easy. I ended up using clamps. I figure I can always haul it down to weld up if I ever get ambitious enough to later. But in reality I'll never do it.

The worst part by far was the header installation. It's some kind of cruel self-torture getting some of those bolts on. But, after an afternoon of swearing and using every combination of wrench and ratchet adapter known to man, it's on and tight. I had read some stories of some headers not fitting around the oil filter, or the power steering, but these went right in. I did have to remove the oil filter housing from the block to get the pass side header in, but after it's in it goes right back on and the filter goes on without a problem.

I used those "dead-soft" aluminum gaskets because I couldn't figure out how the fel-pro gaskets work. They seem to be working great.

The exhaust is definitely louder than what I had on there. I think it sounds good, though there was some serious resonance, or drone, sound inside the car at idle. I have the idle super low right now, so that might go away when I get it tuned up a bit more. I hope so. Overall the sound is a bit louder than what would be "ideal" for me, but I think it'll grow on me a bit.

Anyway, I just wanted to update the thread with the initial results.

jshepard - you can cut that drone down with some dynamat, hushmat or simialr product on your floorboards under the carpet.

On a slightly different topic, I have seen photos of the parking break cable being above the exhasut and other photos being under the exhaust. Which is correct?

I can't answer the parking brake cable question. It's missing from my car. On the list of things to do though! I wish I thought of that while I was installing the exhaust. Hope it doesn't come back to bite me later.

The emergency/parking brake cable is below the exhaust pipes. The pipes are up in the tunnel/hump where the brake cable crosses. Beyond that, I don't believe they ever cross again on mine.

HEY JIMC2002,

What size pipe do you have tucked up over your convertible pan brace ? Is it 2-1/2". Did it fit without using any spacers or bushings on the body pan ?
Thanks,
C.J.