My '69 headlights "do not work" - not through the switch anyway. I can jumper the light blue wire to the orange wire (schematics show orange - mine is black with a white stripe) and t hen they work. What am I missing? Tired of throwing new parts at it - new wiring harness and light switch did not resolve it.

I think you are messing up in the firewall connect. After a brief look at the schematic the firewall connect is shown mirrored. You do not want to connect the light blue to the orange. The light blue inside the car goes to the black and light blue outside the car. Flip the firewall connect as in a mirror and I think you will find your issue.

BTW here is the way you can usually tell. If you look at the schematic and see a wire going on one side of the connector and nothing on the other, consider flipping it. If the wire colors make more since this way in that the color match closer, it is probably mirror. So on the 69 schematic, if you don't flip, the tan goes to the blk/blue. If you do flip, the tan goes to the blk/tan. Its not perfect but it should make a little more sense. However, before you consider jumpering make absolutely sure (take measurements) or you could burn something up.

If I had that problem, I would start throwing parts at it by starting out with a dimmer switch. I think that there is an ample supply of GM switches on the market for a reaonable price.

But the aftermarket wiring harness makes my first guess moot because it adds to the equasion. Personally, I'de be ascared shitless of an aftermarket harness and would seek high and low for a used one.

I am referrng to the plug connector to the headlight switch. The black/white is my hot wire - haven't chased it back to the firewall yet - the schematics show that as an orange wire going in to the plug connector. For whatever reason my hot is black/white stripe. By jumping the hot to the light blue wire that goes to the dimmer switch, the lights (and dimmer) work. I am ready to give up and bypass the headlight switch and put an in-line toggle or button switch for off/on.

Not sure what schematic you are looking at but the one on Vikki's site shows a Brown/whhite as power into the headlight switch plug and the Lt blue as power out of the headlamp switch plug to the beam selector switch.

Could be brown/white - the wire is pretty old and the light I am using isn't that bright. The wiring schematics I have show an orange wire as the hot (which could be the wire to the firewall). Either way, it does not make sense to me that I can get the lights to work by connecting the light blue directly to the hot, but it doesn't work if the light blue is connected to the correct pin on the switch. I think I'll just connect the light blue to the running lights wire and be done with it. At least I'll have headlights when I engage the switch.

It makes perfect sense that hooking the light blue to hot powers on the lights. You are essentially bypassing the headlight switch. That means all the wiring downstream of the headlight switch appears to be correct. Highly recommend you bookmark this reference because your schematic sounds suspect.

http://thefirstgensite.com/

hokie1984

I talked with the electrician at work, we looked at the schematics. He thinks that the red wire fusible link (and the glass fuse - which I looked at, but did not test). My success from jumping the lt blue wire to the brown/white is due to the power back feeding from the jumper. Tonight I will run a jumper from the red connector back to the battery and see what happens.

Thank you for the support!

So that's it? Your lights work fine if you bypass the switch, but they don't work if you go thru the switch?

I suspect bad switch. But unlike Amervo I would never suggest just throwing a part at a problem without diagnosing it first. Use an ohm meter and do a basic continuity test on the switch in all positions and see if the switch is opening and closing in its positions as it should. The fact that you have already replaced the switch is meaningless. New parts can indeed be defective out of the box. Use your ohm meter and test it.

And clearly you are misreading the 69 schematics. Schematics do NOT show an orange wire going to firewall connector as you state. Looking at the headlight switch schematic for 69, there is not an orange wire in sight...so I have no idea where you're getting this orange info from, and I suspect you are reading the wrong schematic, or reading it incorrectly. Here's a schematic for headlight switch:
http://thefirstgensite.com/library/electrical/69wir/69wir2.html

The light switch on the schematic shows it should have 6 wires: green, blue, brown, red, brown/white, white. There is NO orange on that list in the schematic. So why do you feel there should be an orange there? There shouldn't.

You haven't mentioned parking lights yet. Please explain your problem in more detail, because the parking lights pass thru this switch also. Do the parking lights come on in the first detent? And then the parking lights stay on but the headlights stay off at the second detent? Or do the parking lights not work at all? Again a basic continuity test will reveal whether your switch is OK.

I do agree with Amervo that "new" wire harness can also be suspect. I purchased 2 new wire harnesses for my F-bird about 10 years ago and recently installed. Found 2 errors in production so far. One taillight socket installed backwards and, and one pair of wires crossed at a firewall connector. So I have had to do a repair two locations on my "new" harness to correct production mistakes, allowing things to work correctly. So do not assume your new harness is correct either, but you absolutely must be able to follow the schematics accurately in order to verify it has correct wire and connector locations.

I think Amervo was being Tong in Cheek. What I would do is unplug the connecter going into the switch and use jumpers to validate the condition of the switch. I agree with Crazecars, looks like a suspect switch.

Guys,
Thanks for the responses. the running lights come on (with both switches) at the first detent. They stay on when the switch is fully extended - so they are functional with the switch as designed. The dimmer works when the headlights are on (the lt blue jumpered to the brown/white). The orange wire I see in the schematics looks to be the other hot - I think I am looking at the wrong schematics - see the next post)? that goes to the fuse box? I'm confusing myself. I think the red wire is not hot right now, which seems to be the issue, if that is the feed the switch relays to the light blue wire. by running the jumper from the battery to the red pin connector, I can see if the switch works. I'll post my results tonight.

wiring diagram that confused me

diagram I think is the right one

My Firefox browser doesn't want to open those pdf files but I saw enough of one before it froze up to see it is Chiltons. Have you seen the Pontiac ones in Yellowbird's Library?

http://www.thefirstgensite.com/html/69wirindex.html

Cerberus,

At quick glance, your second schematic looks correct. I would still recommend validating it against Vikki's posted schematics. Once you learn her site, you will dump the Chiltons.

I'm not toung-in-cheek! I'm a former automotive mechanic with with 17 years professional experaince in addition to working on cars all my life.

READ VERY CLOSELY! A bad dimmer switch will cause headlight failure.

As for testing the dimmer switch, what is and is not hot at what click, check with craze because it's obviously ten times the automotive expert.

Craze:

<I purchased 2 new wire harnesses for my F-bird about 10 years ago and recently installed. Found 2 errors in production so far. One taillight socket installed backwards and, and one pair of wires crossed at a firewall connector. So I have had to do a repair two locations on my "new" harness to correct production mistakes>

If that isn't throwing parts at a problem, please explain what is.

I downloaded the firsgensite's schematics last week. Looking at too many versions - I confused myself.

100% correct and I am not disagreeing. You may very well have identified his problem.

And I never claimed to be better or smarter than you or anyone else. I'm just pointing out that switches can be very easily tested instead of rushing to replace. Living over an hour from the nearest auto parts store leads me to test first. But a dimmer switch is also cheap and easy to swap, I entirely agree, so if convenient to obtain, replacing can also be an effective test.

As for your wire harness comment...you've never seen my car...you have no idea what problem I was trying to fix. My Bird was purchased as a partially complete project/not-even-rolling chassis. About 60% of my wiring and all connectors were fully missing. So indeed I threw a pair of new aftermarket harnesses at that problem instead of attempting to plastic-mold firewall and other connectors and plugs from scratch LOL...several other harnesses I indeed fixed instead of replaced...

READ VERY CLOSELY: I fully understand a malfunctioning dimmer switch will cause both sets of lights to cease working. I also understand that it is about the easiest electronic component in the car to bypass to validate its functionality. If you can’t figure out how to bypass that switch before blindly buying and installing a new one, you have no business troubleshooting this or any other wiring issue. I personally gave you the benefit of the doubt because few of us have boxes of switches lying around to take the “Install it first and see what happens approach.” Many parts places refuse to take back electric components, so I will never recommend replacing before testing. The beauty is he can listen to one, all or none of us, the choice is his.

I listen to all, but take responsibility for my decision. I will share my results in the hope that others can learn from it.

.... I did test the dimmer - even a rookie like me can troubleshoot it's funcionality. Wish I would have done a more thorough process of elimi nation with the harness and switch - would have saved me $175.

Back to the 'bird!!!!

For what it's worth..............
I jumperd the red (hot) pin from the switch to the battery and the lights work!
Now i have to fllow the red wire back to the fuse block and find where the fusible link is. I'll check that and the fuse. One or both look to be the culprit!

Great, glad to hear it.