thanks medhat68, trying not to give up on it just the frusteration level is climbing.

as for the divider plates...there was 2 seperate plates in mine which i'm guessing is correct. when you put them in the timing cover to install the water pump, you just place them in the cover then place the water pump over them correct? there's not a special installation procedure that I missed with these is there?

i did a quick search and see that there are 2 separate plates in the 63-68 water pump plates . I do not have any experience with that style. the 11 bolt ones use a regular fibre gasket between the plate and the pump and another between the plate and timing cover. the clearance check is done with the gasket in place. you measure the gap between the impeller and the edge of the divider plate. i see the 63-68 ones do not have the bolt holes in the them so they must not require any gasket between them and the mounting surfaces. they do have the same surface that goes up against the impeller though so I would imagine the clearancing is still important.

I put new plates in mine this weekend. The sames as 69, get the plate close to the impeller without touching.

I will agree with what others have said previously - your existing fan is wholly inadequate.

without re reading everything...how about the timing? set wrong can really make it run hot!

Thank you, Bjorn
As I stated believe page 3. Simply backoff on the timing and see what happens?? Simple quick check, and your not tearing into water pumps and buying other fans and spacers..

i double checked the timing on saturday, reset it basically, then backed it off some & still did the same thing. i was hoping it was timing but it looks like its deeper than that

well, i pulled the intake off tonight just to see if there was any issues there & everything looks fine. i drained the oil & no antifreeze in the oil. i looked at all the new lifters on the new cam & no issues on the lifter surface or cam lobes either. all the rocker arms look fine this time, no burnt oil issues. i was considering pulling the heads to check out the head gaskets but now i'm not so sure. i am going to pull the water pump & adjust the divider plates to fit closely with the water pump & also get a larger fan as well. i still haven't completely decided to not pull the heads but i figured i would have seen some sort of problem already.

What to u guys think about the waterless coolant thats out, I know it's a little pricey, but does it work or just snake oil?

water is the best coolant....if anything welse works it sure cannot be much better...think you`re just paying a high price...imo

Looks like this stuff is a mixture of Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol. What it will provide is a much higher boiling point so that concern goes away. However, from a heat transfer standpoint i believe you are going to be worse off as Bjorn stated. The thermal conductivity of water is greater than either of those Glycols. So your engine will run warmer but won't boil over. My vote, snake oil.

I hope someone already covered this - is the thermostat installed "right side up".

Reason why - I talked to an old mechanic that had a client come in with a similar issue that mulitple shops couldn't figure out. He found the thermo was installed upside down.

I removed the one head that was causing the burnt oil on the one rocker arm & there's no problems. I now removed the water pump & tthe divider plates to inspect them more closely & inspect the timing cover as well. here's the pics i took of them. now as a pontiac rookie i don't notice anything really oout of place, do any of you guys see any problems here?

i just looked at the undersid of the divider plate closest to the impeller, here the impeller was rubbing the plate pretty badly, around 50% of the circumference of the opening. could this finally be the cause of the overheating?

Question right before it start to over heat , while running the car in park, Shut the car off and check the h20 level and see if it has drop any,

Yes there is a difference in the two head gaskets. The #1016 has a wire combustion ring underneath the armor effectively creating a stress riser around the bore. Did you use the Fel-Pro recommended torque procedure or the stock Pontiac procedure? I can pull out my Fel-Pro torque book and see what they recommend if you want. If you have a stock HP engine, you really do not need this gasket. It induces more bend into the head when you bolt it up. Check the torque procedure and confirm it's torqued properly. i.e. more ft/lbs on the bolts. I would definitely use the Fel-Pro recommended procedure in this case.

This the reason why i ask about running hot while in park and the h2o level change, head gasket can cause the over heating issue . A over bore can do this too, i have been told

ok, i'll have to double check the torque settings on the other head then. I only pulled the passenger side one off.

I had a few ppl tell me an overbore can do that too. the pistons don't have any number punched on them, so i don't think the previous owners had it bored out. at least i hope not.

You need to be much more specific. I beleive there are multiple "waterless" coolants out there, depending on how the mfr uses the word "waterless."

I do know this particular brand of waterless product is highly endorsed by Ray Bochacz (he's a tech writer for Hemmings Muscle Machines and many others rags...not paid for his endorsements) over any other coolant, and he is a mechanic who certainly has earned my respect over the years, and for that very reason I have no reason to cry snake-oil:
http://www.evanscooling.com/

I haven't used it personally yet to comment. It is completely incompatable with any other coolant/water, so it takes a rather involved flushing procedure prior to install, to get 100% of old stuff out of heater core, hoses, engine, and radiator. This would obviously be a bit of a disadvantage.

Incidentally, Bochacz also wrote for High Performance Pontiac many times over the years. Here's another article where he references this coolant, among many other cooling issues that are Pontiac specific:
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/te...de/viewall.html

In that same article, he specifically refutes the often-repeated statement that "water is the best coolant." He explains why people believe it, and why it is actually false from an engine cooling perspective.

He also shows a different Pontiac water pump plate mod than the one most often discussed here, basically an extra hole drilled in the plate to essentially ensure that all air is bled out of the pump. This might be worthy of trying on a car that continues to overheat, but the fact that Boomstick's car is producing a very hot radiator leads me to believe an airlocking water pump is not his problem.

If you can follow his discussion of coolant attributes in that article from beginning to end, you are closer to a chemist than I am...it frankly cracks me up when he starts that section of the article with a statement about "not getting too deep into chemistry..." but anywho it gives you an idea of the depth of knowldge Bochacz has on various topics, as it often takes me 3 attempts to read one his articles before really digesting and understanding about 70% of it...and largely taking his word for the rest.

So I say NOT snake oil, and indeed better than pure water or any other glycol mix, based mostly on Bochacz articles I've read...if you're asking about Evans anyway...

If it is "completely incompatible with any other coolant/water" I would be concerned with an emergency maintenance issue. You could not make a quick repair along the way without some of that coolant.

I'll refer you to the manufacturer on that. I wrote those words, and after researching it seems I definitely mis-spoke when I chose the word "incompatible." I made an incorrect assumption. It seems other coolants and water ARE INDEED compatible with their coolant.

I found this quote on the Evans website:
"Evans Coolant is a patented blend of chemicals, most of which are commonly found in conventional anti-freeze formulas, and additives with no water. It is not a gel and will not turn gooey if anti-freeze is added to it. If something were to happen on the trail and you are forced to add water or anti-freeze, it will simply perform like conventional anti-freeze, no worse."

Sorry I chose bad wording there. I'm just attempting to summarize info I've read from a source I very much trust...and it seems I did so poorly. Just to be clear, I haven't used this product yet, and I may not. So I have no first-hand experience or knowledge to share.

My car was doing the same thing.I , like you checked everything. Except one day i was looking at the throttle cable, i noticed my carb to intake manifold bolts were loose. tightened them up bam temp dropped 20 degrees!make sure you check the simple stuff.

The only thing i'd add is if you have a 180 degree thermostat high flow. I dont think you can swap the hot water in the block with the cooler water in the rad.too fast the hot water will exit fast giving it more time to cool in the rad. the cold (relative) water coming from the rad will hit the thermostat and close it.

But being in a hot environment running a 160 thermostat and your car runs @ 200 + at the rad and block it will never close. it will remain open for the most part and just act like restrictor in the flow.

well...after much thought about everything, i took a close look at the came & one of the lobes is rounded, not completely, but rounded nonetheless. i'm pulling the engine & having the block checked & doing a complete rebuild on the short block. thanks for all the help everyone

I had a similar problem it had air in the system and I switched to Holley carb because it was running to lean that solved my problem