Hey all, I am scratching my head about this one and need some input. When I got my 69 conv. back, almost nothing electrical was working. I've fixed all that except I can't get the instrument panel lights to work at all (speedometer lights, heater panel lights, cig lighter light, etc.) I replaced the turn signal switch in the column and fixed all the other problems. There is a gray wire in the plug that plugs into the turn signal switch (this is the long narrow plastic harness that connects under the steering column). I can apply 12v + to it and the inst. panel lights come on, so I know they work. However, in the plug coming from the harness to the turn signal switch plug, there is no counterpart on the turn signal switch side for the gray wire (it plugs into nothing basically). Is there supposed to a counterpart, or does it get its power from somewhere else? Here is a link to the wire in question:

http://www.geocities.com/my69birdconv/wiring.html

I hope my description made some sense. Thanks

Your problem sounds like the all-too-typical bad ground. There's supposed to be a network of metal attachemnts on the back side ot the instrument panel that are often rusty and therefor making no grounding contact. Somewhere I have a good picture of them. They connect all the swithces and the instrument panel/gauge "metal housing" with the dash structure.

I don't think it's the ground, because I can apply 12V + to the gray wire and all the lights come on. The problem is that the gray wire plugs into nothing. Is it possible I got the wrong turn signal switch? I had thought the gray wire gets its power somewhere else. I could jumper a wire to it for them to work, but then the rheostat on the headlight switch would be defeated and they would always be on full bright.

PMI can you post that picutre anyway, I have a lighting issue too, but I know mine is a grounding problem because there are none!

I second the request for the pic.

I third the request, I'm sure I could use it also. Thanks PMI. As I sit here staring at the wiring diagram, I see that the gray wire appears to get its power from somewhere else, namely the bottom left fuse (small one)... which in turn gets it's adjusted power from turning the headlight switch. I think I will try applying power directly to the fuse to test it's getting power from the headlight rheostat. If anyone has any other ideas, let me know. I have jiggled the headlight rheostat many times and nothing happens.

I took a look at the wiring diagram on the resto site and from what I see that wire is common positive to:
Heater light
Lighter light
bottom pin on direction signal & hazard switch
pin 3 and 11 on your instrument cluster

The orign of power appears to be as follows:
The red wire on the light switch is your incoming power, this appears (cant tell without a schematic of the switch) to then feed the green wire.
The green wire then runs to the fuse box primary side.
On the secondary side of this fuse the wire then becomes grey with then runs to the:
Heater light
Lighter light
bottom pin on direction signal & hazard switch
pin 3 and 11 on your instrument cluster
I would start by metering for voltage at that red wire first, then green, then grey.
I dont think that the grey wire up to the shifter makes any difference in the cluster lights comming on because the grey wire is common +.
See these wiring diagrams
http://1968firebird.groupwhere.org/69wir/69wir1.html
http://1968firebird.groupwhere.org/69wir/69wir2.html
Hope this helps.

Opps, Gray.
I dont spel to gode :rolleyes:

Okay, I think I have it straightened out. Thanks for the wiring diagram translation, I agree 100% with your conclusions and will proceed accordingly. I think you're right about the gray wire, too... it just "dead-ends" into the plug.

Let us know what you find out to be the problem, and if you dont we will just have to assume that the wiring monster ate you :p

I'll post when I get it figured out... thanks all.

Not sure about the grounding network but here are some pictures of the backside of a 69'dashpanel i had showing the ground straps from heater across to the guages,etc... Have a look,may or may not help.




David

Did they have this on the 68 too?
I know mine is missing grounds, but I wanst aware of a ground strap network like that.
What does a 68 have?

68' has one that runs from the center screw of the dash panel, wraps around the highbeam housing and then to a screw on the back of the panel.

David

Does anyone have a picture of this?
I know that I dont have that one.

Gimme a minute and i'll post a picture for you.

David

David your the man!
Thanks a million.

Thanks, David ... that is exactly the picture I am looking for. I know it's here somewhere. Unfortunately, I have access to 6 computers, and I can never remember which one I save stuff on!

Here it is.I have also seen ones that are more like solid wire then like this one being a flat strap.


David

Great, thanks David, I am going to start troubleshooting my electrical problems shortly and I am trying to get a war plan together.
Thanks for your pic.

No problem, was my pleasure. 69's needed that ground network probably because the entire dash was plastic and all the accesories were housed there. 67/68' being a metal dash had the dash ground the lighter,etc... and theplastic dash panel/guages was ground by the strap in the pic i posted.

David

You guys are awesome. I'm going to file away that pic also, since I've never had the dash out!!

On a '68, is the heater panel supposed to light up?

Thanks, David for posting these pics, really infomative topic here!

Steve

Yes, Greg, the heater cotrol panel does light up.

Steve

Dave,
If I recall, in '68s the gray wire is for the light in the column shifter. If you have it it would illuminate when the dash lights would turn on. If you apply + 12 battery to that wire you would be applying power backwards to the dash from there in place of from it's correct source. That makes me think it is in the + supply instead of a bad ground. If the dash grounds were bad, +12 power applied still would not complete the circuit and illuminate.
Jim

Hey, guys. A dirty little secret about that elaborate network of metal straps that make up the grounds for the dash: Home made jumper wires work just fine if your original metal straps are mutilated or missing. Apparently, my bird has led a rough life.

Greg, the heater control panel is supposed to light up as mentioned by Steve. It has a single feed wire/bulb that goes into the side of the control unit that provides the light.It is grounded to the metal dash as it is bolted to it.Same goes for the lighter as it has a single feed single feed wire.The highbeam housing also has the single feed wire that is grounded with the strap.I'm not positive but i think you could use a metal coathanger to form a strap if you don't have one.In my reply above i mentioned seeing different straps and it looked like a metal coat hangers diameter +/- with a looped end for the screws and was bent/routed in the same fasion as the flat one in the picture i took.

David

Okay... I think Jim resolved why the gray wire plugs into nothing... When I reinstall my console with shifter and light... the light will hook to it! That makes a lot of sense! Thanks! Now I just need to find the short/lack of connection on the other end of it

blk68,and tinind, thanks for the info. I'll have to get up under there and see what wrong.I am familiar with the grounding strap on the instrument panel. Previous owner installed incorrectly and insulated it from the cluster housing. Easy fix.

Greg, could be just a burnt out bulb in your case of heater lighting.My thoughts unless you have a very rusty connection for the ground.I'd check the bulb first.

David

Dave,
I looked at my '68 wiring diagram (so I don't know if the '69s routing is the same). The grey wire runs from the fuse box to the dash PC board, heater lamp and steering column. A short fuse in the box protects all reostat controlled circuits (the dash lights). I have to ask - you did check the fuse? Also take a meter and see that you have voltage at the fuse. Turn the light switch full clockwise and it should be 12v full counter clockwise should be 0 volts. You did turn on the lights and turn the light switch clockwise? If not the lights might just be in their full dim position. The other side of the fuse runs to the rheostat terminal of the dash light switch.

Good points Jim!

David

From your description I think that 68 and 69's were the same, Jim. And Oh yes, I did everything you mention. I also jiggled the switch as I remember even back in the early 90's I had to jiggle a little bit to get the lights at the intensity I wanted. I didn't check for voltage at the fuse, just checked the fuse. When I pull the car out of the garage tomorrow afternoon that's the first thing I'll do... I'll try to find where I have voltage and where I don't and take it from there. Thanks everyone for all the info!!!

Dave,
Almost sounds like the light switch was failing.

On another subject, do you ever have any 1st Gen get togethers out in the Front Range? We are out there frequently. A couple years ago I saw a show while driving through Loveland and stopped for a while. There were about three 1st Gens and saw couple nice GTOs. One 1st gen was a red convert with a bench seat. The owner said it was original.

Well, I'm not aware of any, yet. I would love to start one, though. I know there are a handful of people on this site that are in my area. There's one 69 coupe less than a mile from my house but they aren't on the site, and it belongs to a kid who's off in college somewhere. I hope some people in the Colorado Springs/Denver/Pueblo area read this and get interested.
Regarding the light prob, it may very well be the switch. I'm hoping it isn't because I guess it's pretty hard to get it out of there. Also, I can still turn on the interior lights and headlights with it, so at least that much works. I'll know more tomorrow when I get the car out for playtime!!!

Almost every screw that holds that gage cluster panel into the 68 console is important. One missing or wrong length screw could cause a ground link to not connect, thereby causing dash lights and other things not to work. OR, they work fine till you switch on the headlights or something, then what did work no longer works. Q is right, check all those ground points.

I'll definitely keep that in mind... I certainly did have a ground problem until I made a jumper. Thanks John

Okay, Okay... Jim asked...
"I have to ask - you did check the fuse?"
I did, but not good enough. I had power on both sides of the fuse, but the slightly rusty fuse holder wasn't letting power transfer from the fuse to the wire in question. Duh! Sometimes I overcomplicate things. Thanks everyone, and I think I'll be removing all the fuses and sandblasting the fuse panel.
Anyway, the car has dash panel lights again for the first time in 7 years!

Always remeber to "KISS" it:
Keep It Simple Stupid

I cant tell you how many times I fell victim to this. Glad you got it all figured out.
Enjoy the illumination!