Hey guys,
Hoping for some good input. I recently sold my 1968 400HO and was chatting with a guy in Texas who was interested in buying my car. He said he had a line on another car near him and was told it was a '68 with a factory installed 428 and had a build sheet to go with it. I've never heard of such a thing......any thoughts...comments?

The 428 was not a factory available option for a Firebird. Perhaps there is some crazy story involved with it but for the most part those have been debunked.

Agreed. He advised it is still owned by the original owner, who is an airline pilot an seems credible but somthing must be missing from the story. Did COPO ever do pontiacs?

Sounds like you're not an interested buyer...but if anyone is, it would be pretty easy and smart to ask for a copy of that build sheet, and then run a PHS on it, and see what it says...

Theres a guy in Houston claiming to own one of the few 428 Firebird originals, claims it was on display by the fatcory in Vegas in 67...before the Firebirds went on sale...also claims having papers...
I saw the car a few years ago, but he has since put it in storage...

Maybe try to get the fellow in Texas to get a copy of the build sheet and send it to you. Then you could post it here, I'd sure like to see it.

Short answer - No. The hot rumor is that Royal Pontiac and maybe a couple of other dealerships did "Bobcat" like packages for Firebirds by yanking out the original engine at the dealership and installing 428's. I do not recall if any real evidence was every located.

It's the "Bigfoot" of the FGF world.

I have an magazine article documenting Royal Pontiac doing just that.

Copy and post it so we can read it.

Myrtle motors in NY did conversions with 428's

No arguments on either point here as I have heard similar stories, but as was noted in the original post about a factory installed 428, neither of these two situations meets that criteria.

They didn't produce any factory 428 Firebirds or GTO's, but yes, some dealers did swaps.

Motor Trend did a feature article on a 1968 Royal Bobcat 428 GTO, and I believe the cost was around $600 for the swap, plus of course they would get your original 400. Not a bad deal really. I'd imagine if Pontiac offered a 428 as an factory option, it would have been around $150-$250.

There was a 67 or 68 Firebird in a Pontiac Enthusiast or High Perf Pontiac magazine a LONG time that was supposedly a Royal Bobcat 428 Firebird, with dual quads.

Myrtle Motors also did a conversion, and tried to get in on the Royal Pontiac publicity wagon by having one of their 428 Firebirds featured in the Sept 68 issue of Popular Hot Rodding Magazine (attachments below).

Either way, there weren't any factory 67-69 428 Firebirds or GTO's, and there won't be any PHS invoices or builds sheets showing a 428. If this gentleman has one of the dealer conversion cars, it would be worth a lot of money restored today, as long as he has a rock solid paper trail to prove its heritage.

Here's a rough scan of the 1968 Myrtle Motors Firebird 428 test. This baby flew.

I just spoke to the gentleman in Texas(via email) about this car and he advised that the owner does claim it was from royal pontiac and he says he has the original sales contract listing the modifications. He sent me a picture of the car. It's a charcoal gray color with a fin on the back. Sound like the same car you saw in Texas?

Outstanding! We have found Bigfoot. I have always wanted to see this issue laid to rest.

The one that was featured years ago in a magazine was also charcoal gray, so I imagine it's the same car.

It's been said fifteen times and I'll repeat it again for emphasis for some reason, that 428 was not factory installed. A dealer-installed option does not necessarily have the corporate imprimatur, some will and others won't. We do know in this case that these 428s did not. So while we know that there were Firebirds with 428s installed we continue to lack evidence of a "stock" 428.

What would be interesting to know is what engine those cars came with originally, it seems to indicate a regular 400 in the article, but could it have also been a Ram Air version?

He advised that this car, according to PHS did come originally with a 400. In addition to the 428 it was also fitted with Ram Air heads, cam and ducting with functional heads.

excuse me, functional ram air hood, not head.

You know what I love about this more than anything? It proves that Camaro spoilers were installed on some brand new Firebirds in 1968, and driven off the dealer floor perched on brand new FGFs, simply because they were extremely cool looking.

As they still are today.

So articles like the one above prove, beyond any question, that Camaro spoilers absolutely MUST be installed on FGF's if you want it to look as awesome and mean and as period-correct-modified as humanly possible...

LOL. I'm just messin...and acknowledge that beauty is in the eye of the beholder (and of course only my eye is correct.)

But I just had to throw that tidbit out there for all the spoiler haters on this site...

Cool article all around. It's fun to read those old mag stories. Thanks for posting it up.

OK, you are excused!

But if you are going to paint on 'Maro stripes and add 'Maro spoilers, why the h$ll not just buy a 'Maro??

Next subject?

Everyone knows the answer to that...

Cuz Camaros are too expensive!

Don't lynch me, but I have to admit I was actually looking for a 69 Camaro when I stumbled across my Firebird. It was cheap, so I settled.

Of course now that I own it, if I ever choose to sell it, I'll have to settle for less $$ and a harder sell than if it were a Camaro. Such is the price you pay for the up-front savings...

Truth be told, I prefer the looks of the Firebird over Camaro anyway. Particularly the front end. And I admit it's nice pulling into a car show and being one of one, or one of very few, rather than one of FIFTEEN Camaros. (Although the IRONY of the fact that my next door neighbor happens to own a 68 Firebird Vert also just KILLS me).

I'm less enamored with how these Pontiac motors seem to be a more specialized thing and are more expensive to rebuild/replace/modify compared to the dime-a-dozen Chebby motors.

Nothing anyone here hasn't heard 500 times before...

these are still not "factory"...Bobcats or the others...the guy I am talking about claims his came 428 from the factory....
again:"claims"....

This gentleman is not claiming it's factory. It was a question posed to the forum and answered. Paperwork shows dealership made the changes/modifications. I just asked the question.

My buddy had a 428 /w 4.11's. Brutally fast!

Yes, that's what I said earlier in this thread, if I may be so bold as to quote myself.

There are always myths and tall tales of factory 428's in Birds and Goats, or 421's in 64-66 GTO's, but Pontiac never built one.

Transplanted? Yes.
Engineering car? Yes.
Test car? Yes.

But not built from the factory.

Er...The original post did say "factory installed" and implied documented by the build sheet.

Thus the reason why many posters may have come across as a bit miffed. The gauntlet had been thrown!

As a side note, this 67 Bird was at the MCACN show here in Chicago last weekend. I believe this was Tyrol Blue. What a great looking car! It had aftermarket 428 emblems on the hood and trunk, and blacked out scoops. I thought those were nice touches (I did the same to my car several years ago, but since changed back).

That is a really nice bird. Any more pictures?

I wish I had more, but that's all I took of this one. I took over 350 pics, just too many cars to photograph!

This one had a mix of various mods, from the 428 under the hood to the black hood scoops, later era white letter tires, etc. Obviously not a 400 car originally (unless someone restored and didn't replace the Firebird 400 specifics, which is ok too!). Note the Royal Bobcat emblem on the front fender behind the wheelwell. Nicely done!

Yes, that's an awesome bird. Really like the Tyrel blue. Hope to see it for myself someday.

I am very limited in my knowledge about FGF's but out of curiosity. If these cars were originally 400 cars why is there no Arrowhead in the bumper? (MotorTrend ad on page 2)? Thought all 68' 400 models had them?? Sorry if its a stupid question, just thought it wouldnt make sense, that they would change a bumper for no reason.

I was wondering the same thing.

It does appear to have one on the very top of the first page of the article. I can't tell in the second picture where the two cars are side by side.

Would love to have more pics of that car. Hope I can get mine that clean someday.

Not to mention the car is missing front wrap around marker lamps, making it a 67??

could be several reasons. among others, replaced front bumper been damaged, rusty, wrecked?, or its not a true orig 400...

The cars we are talking about are dealership swaps of the 428's when they were new, that were supposedly done to new factory 400's, not restorations or rehabs of old cars.

I do see 400 hockey sticks on every grille...

I'm thinking the arrowheads are there, simply washed out in the pics by poor photo copy. Hard to tell though.

Agree one front end of the 3 shown in the article (the "race car" with the tow bar installed) appears to be a 1967 with no park lights.

The real question here is, did you buy the car!?

Definitely NOT a silly question!

The 1968 GTO Royal Bobcat 428 I mentioned above was an example where Royal Pontiac transplanted in a 428 engine, pulling out the original 400.

With the Myrtle Motors Firebird, they most likely started with a 350 car and performed the 428 swap. In the process they added the hood, stripes, rear spoiler, and emblems.

The photo of the two Birds side-by-side shows the 1967 Myrtle Motors drag car, with the nose up attitude. Also notice that the drag car has scoops in front of the rear wheelwells.

Not all the transplant cars had to start out as Firebird 400's.

Royal Pontiac had a 1969 Firebird 350HO, red with a white tail panel and stripes, and lettered up for Royal Pontiac (and later, Leader Engineering). Royal modified this car for class racing, and it became the quickest 350 in the country. It was also featured in magazines articles, like the cover of PHR. It had a flat hood with dual hood tach nacelles (this was how the Firebird 350 HO was supposed to be built, but they nixed the double tach nacelles at the last minute).

After they were done running the 350HO, they transplanted in a Ram Air V, and did another test for a magazine. It now had the 400 hood, but none of the usual Firebird 400 trim.