Hi = need some quick help if possible. Trying to drive the Bird over to Ocean City Md for the car show tomorrow. Thought I had everything good, but while testing out my Hot Start problem, I think I may have melted the Remote Solenoid.
I installed a Ford Solenoid (Remote) up front by the radiator. DId this a few years ago, seems to work ok, but never perfect. I charged up the battery well over the last 24 hours, so good to go there. Ran the car today, drove around, stopped and started a few times, then drove it home. It's pretty much heated up well at this point. Tried to start again (fortunately in the garage this time) and it failed to crank. Kept trying, something I would normally not do, but trying to stress it here, and I saw smoke coming from the solenoid. Hood was open at this point. So I checked the main large cable connection coming from the battery, and the Post on the solenoid seemed loose. Now I notice that even though the key is out of the ignition, all idiot lights are lit in the car. So I disconnect the battery to kill it, took a break, grabbed a beer and thought about it while it cooled down. Removed the suspect cable from the battery, never trusted this cable anyway. And now the Post seems fine, wondering if I imagined it was loose, not sure. Went to Autozone and bought a new 2 Gauge Cable, routed the cable, hooked it all up, and fired up the Bird. Sounds great right? Well now the car will not shut off, pull the key and it just keeps running. I choked the Carb to kill it, and now you are up to the present. What would keep the car running like that? Melted Solenoid? Shorted wire, probably within the solenoid, I wired this remote setup very well, good quality cable and connections. Hope I didnt do anything under the dash by the ignition, but the wires could have all heated up.
Any good thoughts? Thanks - hoping to cruise a few hours to the beach in the morning.
So yes - I think I melted the remote solenoid. Quick fix, I'm using the AC Delco F903 solenoid - about $22. I need to do some research on the concept of this remote solenoid, even though I put it all together I do not know how it works, or why it has a benefit. Once again I must praise this forum, even though I did not have the time to wait for a response, I'm sure one of you would have come to help. I was able to do a quick search, and pulled up my old thread from 5 years ago, - I'll post it here just to add a little value to this thread. The old post had the AC Delco part number in it, made for a quick trip to Auto Zone. Link - https://firstgenfirebird.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=172899&page=1
Heading over to Ocean City for the car show, leaving soon. It's a good 2 1/2 hour drive. Should shake out the old Firebird well.
I mounted a starter solenoid on my right fender and it works well.
Your solenoid could have died a natural death with age but it could also be your starter is drawing too much and fried the relay. If you have access to a suitable amp gauge you could install it between the solenoid and the starter and determine the amp draw of the starter, if it's out of spec you know you have a starter overhaul in your future, if it is in spec you know the solenoid was indeed expired. One of the most common ways a solenoid expires is from the studs rotating while tightening the cable nuts. This can cause the contacts to misalign and stay connected when the key is not in the start position. It is also the most common reason for starter run-on after starting the engine. It could also result in just a small portion of the contacts actually contacting and causing a thermal runaway type situation and melting the solenoid. As for the engine continuing to run when you turned off the key, with a stock wired car there is a wire with +12 volts that runs to the coil part of the ignition system when the key is in the start position, bypassing the ballast resistor in a points system. When the key is in the run position that wire is taken out of the circuit and another wire supplies the voltage to run the ignition circuit. +12 volts for an HEI and about +9 volts for a points style distributor. If the solenoid is faulty and is staying in contact after the start it will continue to supply +12 volts and the car will stay running even when the ignition switch is in the off position.
As for how it works and why it has a benefit, the advantages are many. If the solenoid is mounted on the right fender near the battery the only cable that is live when not in the start mode, is the 12 or so inches from the battery to the solenoid. The portion of the cable that runs to the starter is dead in the run mode. This eliminates live cables and small wires from the hot area of the starter and exhaust manifolds or headers. The wire from the ignition switch to the S terminal of the starter is re-routed to the solenoid and a buss bar or jumper wire is put between the S terminal on the starter to the battery cable terminal on the starter. This eliminates the wire from the switch running through the tube and down to the starter, keeping it cooler and supplying proper voltage to the s terminal of the starter and thus the starter mounted solenoid. This can help eliminate hot start problems. Some accessories are mounted on the BATT terminal of the starter these are moved to the Batt stud on the remote solenoid keeping them away from the heat of the engine and the exhaust and reducing voltage loss due to increased resistance in the wires caused by heat. The wire mounted on the sarter R terminal that runs to the coil is mounted on the remote solenoid keeping it away from heat and also a full battery voltage on startup.
When done you should have the cable from the solenoid running to the starter and no other wires, just the cable.
The remote solenoid is a convenient place to wire in accessories for full voltage and also a convenient place to instal a remote starter switch when doing maintenance.
In my opinion it's just a better way to wire in the starter and related circuits. Some like to have their cars appear stock, the relay can be hidden under the fender. Some like there car to be stock, for them this is not an option.
The biggest advantage is lower risk of electrical fire and full voltage to starter.
Mine has an HEI and a relay on the firewall supplying it full system voltage via a terminal block also mounted on the firewall. Charging voltage is supplied to the solenoid mounted on the fender also via the firewall terminal block. The firewall terminal block is fed from the alternator and the voltage sense wire is attached there. A second terminal block on the rad support supplies voltage to the five circuit breakers and relays feeding the rad fans, high and low lights and horn. Everything fore of the firewall gets full 14.5 volts when running and full battery voltage when starting or in assy mode. Before the changes I was getting 10.5 volts due to loss from resistance in the wires running from the alternator to the dash and back.
That's great info and great pics, thanks a lot. Yes I made it to the show today. Almost 300 miles round trip. Saw about 6 or 7 nice Firebirds and a few good T/A's as well. Kind of fun, though a bit childish for an old guy, to light up the tires on the strip as the spectators cheer. Car ran great, restarted it about 8 times during the day, even when it should be at peak heat after running for 2 hours, started up fine.
Nothing childish about it. that's dedicated research into traction control. Everyone whose involved in such unselfish scientific endeavours deserves recognition and gratitude from those who benefit. Thus the spectator cheers.
