While I was checking out this 69 TA on ebay, I noticed a few things I thought were weird. Is it just me, or do this car look like it has some of the wrong components?

[url=www.ebay.com/itm/251718734150?forcerRptr=true&item=251718734150&viewitem=]Ebay TA 1969[/url]
[url=//http://www.ebay.com/itm/251718734150?forcerRptr=true&item=251718734150&viewitem=]ta[/url]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251718734150?forcerRptr=true&item=251718734150&viewitem=


I wrote the seller and ask where the original rear end was, but I received no response. It looks like a 8.5 rear end, not a 8.2" rear end. Notice the round cover flange. Where are the dished out areas on the side?

The stripes were the "darker blue" stripes.....ala the wrong color.The Cameo white looked good. I have never seen a 69 TA without a in dash tack. I thought it was part of the TA package. The master cylinder is obviously incorrect since it has no bleeders on it by the line connections. The alternator didn't have a black fan, hood looks like a repop, the passenger side mirror isn't on the option sheet, the radio antenna is wrong, rear end unbolts are too long, and with no photo of the body tag, i assumed it was a clone. However, its bid up to $85,100 so far, and the reserve isn't off. Its a good looking car, but wonder if its real? I saw there wasn't a photo of the vin plate either. And no engine numbers. Will people really spend that much on a car that isn't documented clearly? And I'm worried about matching the seam sealer color!

Why would some one list a car with a potential large value and not document the car as a real ta?

4-speed 1969 Trans Am's have sold for over $100K, so this isn't out of the ball park at $85K.

Yes, it has a few incorrect details.

- This is a bare bones Trans Am, only a 4-speed and tinted windshield were ordered.
- In-dash tach (or even gauges) were not standard on the Trans Am. They had to be ordered.
- The seller states it's "one of the darker blue versions". There is no such thing. Someone painted the car with the wrong color stripes, and this is his way of making it sound like the color is correct. A lot of resto shops, with little information on 1969 Trans Am's, simply opened up the Ditzler catalog and chose a blue they thought Pontiac used in 1969 (they usually pick Windward Blue), unaware that Pontiac used 1967 Tyrol Blue.
- The invoice doesn't show Rally II's, so someone added those, along with the white lettered Goodyears. Looks good, but not correct according to the invoice.
- Passenger side mirror is not on the invoice.
- Console is not on the invoice. It should have a shifter and boot out of the floor.
- Master cylinder is a standard rebuilt unit for a Camaro, and it should be black, not gray.
- Alternator is incorrect, looks like a rebuild unit from a parts store.
- The hood hinges should be gray phosphate, not black.
- The repro window sticker form is wrong, but not the seller's fault. PHS has been using the wrong Firebird window sticker blanks for years now.

I normally wouldn't criticize, but when the seller makes claims like, "Probably the finest example of any 69 Trans Am in existence today" and "It doesn't get any better than this", you know they haven't been to any major Pontiac events to compare.

Nice looking car, probably worth the money the way it sits if it still retains the matching numbers drivetrain.

Nice car, just really odd that he has the colors wrong on some of the components. The guy that owes it is not a Pontiac guy. If I was going to drop that kind of money i would go look at it in the "flesh".

I think his reserve will be high for the bidders.

Yes, i have the console and its listed my build sheet. I thought the weirdest thing was what appears to be a 70 or later 10 bolt likely Chevrolet rear end. I've never seen a 8.5 in a 1969 from the factory. Mine was built pretty late, shipped october 28, 1969, and mine has an 8.2" rear end. I agree i would have to see it in person to buy one. It just seems if I was selling one, which i'm not, my first picture would be the body tag, the next would be the vin, the next the hidden vins, next the PHS docs, then car photos and engine numbers. How much difference do you think the original motor verses replacement would make to the price of his car? I would hope a bunch for this type a car.

I have read rally2's and side mirrors were often dealer added items that don't show up on the invoice.

It looks to me it has the correct rear end. I see the correct Pontiac cover. It should be a 8.2 Nodular.

Seems strange to me in the sellers buyer history it lists:

Positive feedback rating excellent communication, great parts Buyer: n***n ( 158Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499) More than a year ago
1969 trans am ram air hood pans original oe (#250163477421) US $2,500.00
Plus a console, etc...
I also notice in the buyers history purchases for most of the other TA items.......clone alert.

Hopefully interested buyers would shell out for full PHS documentation. Especially when that kind of $$$ is involved.

Well maybe i'm wrong on the rear end. I need an education, and i can still learn things, and thats a great thing.
My OE rear end, in a 69 TA, looks like this. Notice the scalloped circle cover on mine. Its my understanding that is what is a visual clue to a 8.2. If its a full circle, then its something else...maybe a camaro 10 bolt or a later model 10 bolt?

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/colekc5swi/20141120_133704.jpg

http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/colekc5swi/20141120_133622.jpg

It could be its so dark i can't see it well enough.

His is shaped the same way as yours. It is just dark. You have to look close. See if this helps. I brightened and brought it in closer.

Ok, I stand corrected. Now I can see it. However, it doesn't fix the fact he ordered the TA parts on ebay.....

The seller may have just been missing parts. The Ram Air pans on Trans Am's and Firebirds went out pretty quickly, either from rust, or simply discarded at some point in the car's life when another owner decided to install a 14" air cleaner, or maybe one of those funky triangular foam cage air cleaners.

I'm sure if someone was considering buying this at $85K+, they would contact PHS and pay the $50+ to get an expedited invoice via fax.

One of the eight 1969 Trans Am convertibles was also incorrectly restored (back in the 1990's) with the wrong color blue stripes and tail panel, and stripes over the spoiler (it's now getting re-restored). There was also one restored painted in Polar White instead of Cameo. There simply wasn't much information on these cars until recently, and sometimes resto shops used original magazine ads or road tests as references to restore these cars.

I understand that, in 69, only the TAs have D80 on the trim tag, denoting the deck lid spoiler. The other 69 Firebird models never came from the factory with rear spoilers so would've never had this code appear on the trim tag. If you want to know if this is a real-deal TA, then ask for a pic of the trim tag.

I can see the PHS indicates TRANS AM but I've often wondered if that can be changed with the right software, which is why I'd rely on the trim tag to be certain.

Mark, good point about the D80! It's still not an absolute though. Pontiac used D80 as a trim code (very rare) on Firebirds, but the D80 appears in a different spot on the trim tag than the spoiler code D80 would.

And trim tags have been repopped for years now, thanks to trimtags.com.

Sorry to say, I've seen several doctored invoices, including a 1969 Trans Am convertible and a 1970 RAIV Judge. Won't post pics here, but there have been instances in recent years that Jim Mattison has seen too.

Sometimes people say to look for paint code 50-50 (white/white) to determine a real 1969 Trans Am, but they actually made a few vinyl top cars, so that's not always a sure thing either. And of course, a regular white 1969 Firebird would also be code 50-50. But checking for paint code 50-50 (and for D80) will take care of 95% of the fraud cars out there.

A call (or fax) to PHS is the only way to be sure. Of course, that STILL doesn't take into account people that re-body a car, switch tags, change all the hidden VIN's (that was done with a 1969 rebodied Firebird that went through auction as a real deal 1969 Trans Am years ago), so nothing is 100% sure anymore. Solid owner documentation (and PHS) is as close as you can get.

I think that D 80 is always used for the spoiler option code in all GM apps. There is also a little seen B 80 code that is for the drip rail trim on later built cars. The two codes seem to get confused,