Hey guys, I am contemplating different options for a transmission swap and looking to see if people may be able to help with some of the stock measurements to compare to. I understand this may take input from various people since the parts need to be out of the car to measure, but if you have a Muncie, Bellhousing or Flywheel out of the car and can help out, that would be great.:

1. Length of input shaft from mounting face of trans to end of pilot
2. Length of pilot bushing area of input shaft
3. Approx centerline of shifter from mounting face of trans
4. Length of front bearing retainer from mounting face of trans
5. OD of front bearing retainer (prefer caliper measurement here)
6. Overall depth of bellhousing from engine mounting surface to trans mount surface
7. Distance from engine mounting surface of bellhousing to cluch ball
8. Flywheel thickness from clutch surface to rear of crank mounting pad


Thanks in advance.

Are you contemplating swapping a muncie 4 speed in place a a stock turbo 350 onto a pontiac engine in a first gen?
I dont have measurements but the swap is pretty straight forward with easily available parts.
lots of pics of the swap I did of same on my pages like this if it might help you with the decision.
http://www3.telus.net/68bird/engine_install.htm
Kelly

No, that would be way too easy. Looking to swap in a GM/Ford hybrid 5 speed so I'm dealing with parts that were never designed to go into our cars.

Is that a Prius transmission?

Do Prius's have transmissions?

Daryl, I have a Muncie on the shelf in the garage and a flywheel in the basement so could probably get you the measurements. The problem is I can't get it now and I have a memory about as long as my...well not that long so you should send me an email and I can probably get it this week. Bobman58ya@yahoo.com.

Yeah, not exactly what I had in mind

Thanks Bob, I'll send you an email.

Finally got around to posting a pic (sorry if they show up really big, using a new host site and not sure how to change the size yet). This is a Frankenstein T5 made from a combination of 88 Camaro V8 WC gearbox, 97 Mustang V6 WC gearbox, and a few aftermarket parts. The main case, input shaft, 1-3 gears, front bearing retainer, cluster gear, and reverse gear are the GM. The mainshaft, 5th gear, shift cover and rail, and tailhousing are from the Ford box. The cluster support and 3/4 shift keys are aftermarket billet.

Using the GM front half allows the tranny to bolt to the stock bellhousing as it is the same as the Muncie pattern. Swapping to the Ford tail puts the shifter within about a 1/4" of the stock location and eliminates most of the 18 degree offset in the GM T5 trans mount.

I have about $50 net into this setup. I paid $150 about 4 years ago for the GM box. I got the Ford box for free. I paid $100 for a rebuild kit and $75 for the aftermarket parts. I was able to sell all the other parts that I am not using. I still have some parts left. I may end up making money on this deal The case is powdercoated a cast aluminum color that I had on the shelf.

I know that some won't be able to hlep themselves in calling out the toque rating of the T5. It's a valid point (though tends to be greatly exaggerated), but one I have already accepted. I have next to nothing in this trans and have addressed 2 of the the weakest 3 links. I have street tires and the car will never see the track. I think it turned out pretty good. Unfortunately, it probably won't go into the car until next winter. Can't wait to get on the hwy with the OD!

Oh man, I had to smile at that last pic with the dishwasher. My ole lady would kill me. Did you wait till she was out for the day or is this a dedicated parts washer for the garage?

The key is to have a very understanding wife. ...our make sure she is sound asleep. Thankfully, mine was both at the time. The housing had been degreased, bead blasted,and rinsed in the laundry tub before hitting the dishwasher. Just wanted the hot water spray to give it a once over. She figured out out right away when she saw the dishwasher had been emptied overnight. If i had water in the garage i would love to have a dishwasher for a parts washer. I do have a dedicated oven in the garage for powdercoat.

Hey Daryl,
Good talking to you again. I might have some answers for you with-out giving dimensions. I nstalled a t-5 in my '69 where a Saginaw had been. Everything bolted right up using the existing clutch and throw-out bearing. With the GM tail-shaft, the drive shaft had to be shortened slightly (1 3/4" IIRC). Does the Ford tail-shaft eliminate that. Also the console had to be moved back about the same amount for the shifter to fit the opening correctly. The 18 degree offset is in the 3rd gen bellhousing so really doesn't apply here.

My t-5 is also a WC out of an '88 GTA and is working flawlessly. Like you said, when you mention that you have a t-5 all you here is how weak they are. I have been told that "I can blow up a t-5 in 10 minutes". It all depends on your driving style . My intention was to have a fun car that I could drive anywhere and with the t-5 that is what I got and saved $3K in the process.

Hey Hank,

Yeah I'm finally starting this project that i talked to you about several years back. The Ford tail didn't eliminate the need to shorten the driveshaft, but it does eliminate having to move the console. I also get a deeper overdrive. I understand the angle is in the 3rd gen bell housing, but when installed straight up, the mount is then canted. This nearly eliminates that. Plus it was fun learning what it would take to build this combination. I got a lot of info and support from Paul Cangialosi from 5speeds.com.

You're going to get the canned response on the weakness of the T5. My favorite is that "GM wouldn't even put it behind the 350 due to torque limits". The truth is GM didn't out it behind the 350 due to emissions. You could still get it behind the 350 in Canada with the same torque motor. The other is people thinking that the torque rating means anything above it will kill it like a red line. The torque rating is a durability rating. At that torque rating the trans will survive the development duty cycle (x amount of customer miles). Truth is you can run higher than the rating and have no issues, or you can have failure below the rating. The number one failure on the t5 is third gear. That's not a torque issue, it's a deflection issue. The cluster gear support is stamped steel and can flex over time and under load. This coupled with mainshaft flex (since 3rd gear is in the middle) creates a mesh issue and results in failure. The billet support helps eliminate some of that. It's never going to be as strong as a TKO. But isn't nearly as expensive. Like i said, i have a net $50 into this with a fresh rebuild (thankfully the Ford box had new blocking rings). If i decide i want to beat in this trans, i could upgrade to the g-force or astro performance gears for half the price of the TKO.