Photobucket

Seeking guidance from all you 1967 Generation 1 experts as to how I should price my car. One in college and another on the way, so I need to sell my investments.

Below is the advertisement I have created which provides a good deal of detail about the car. Thank you in advance for your feedback and knowledge.

Matching Numbers, Unmolested, True Survivor 1967 Firebird 400

All original 1967 Firebird 400. Factory Regimental Red with black interior. All original numbers matching 400, Turbo 400 automatic and limited slip differential. This is a uniquely optioned Firebird with deluxe interior, deluxe wheel covers, folding rear seat, rear-window defroster, cruise control (EXTREMELY RARE OPTION), full console with floor mounted shifter, AM radio and stereo 8-track player. The car has the original distributor, radiator and carburetor as well. This Firebird comes with a three ring binder full of documentation including original window stickers (from Pontiac Motor Division and Dealer) and paperwork. The binder includes all service records starting with the first oil change at the Pontiac Dealership in 1967. This Firebird's history and originality can be tracked through this documentation. This Firebird has always been garaged and is completely rust free. This is an exceptionally rare, all original, unmolested survivor which runs and drives superbly!

The Custom Factory Installed Options (listed below) were $1,148.20, which, added to the base price of the car ($2,666) and the destination charge ($145), brought the total from the Factory to $3,959,20! The Dealer-Installed Options of Undercoat ($40.00), Simonizing ($25.00), and a portable compressed air tank ($42.00), brought the car to a Grand Total of $4,066.70

Factory Installed Options which are on the Retail Sticker include:
400 4 BBL ENG;
Chrome Air Cleaner, Rocker Covers and Oil Cap;
Dual Exhausts;
HD Batter and Starting Motor;
Dual Hood Scoops;
Declutching Engine Fan;
Manual Antenna –Rear;
Radio – Push Button;
Tape Player – Stereo (8-Track);
Mirror – LH Remote Control;
Seat Belts – Custom Front & Rear (Fisher Carriage Emblem);
Wheel Discs (Pontiac Motor Division –PMD);
Power Steering – Wonder Touch;
Power Brakes – Wonder Touch;
Glass – Soft Ray – All Windows (tint);
Custom Trim Option –
Deluxe Wheel
Front & Rear Wheel Opening Mouldings
Side Roof Rail Mouldings
Windshield Pillar Mouldings
Custom Seat Door Quarter Trim
Dual Horns
Instrument Panel Assist Grip
Mats – Front Floor – Throw
Mats – Read Floor – Throw
Rear Seat – Folding
Differential SAF–T–Track
Turbo Hydarmatic Trans

VIN# 223377U109423
1st digit is the GM division number (2 = Pontiac)
2nd digit is the series number (2 = Firebird)
3rd digit is the model/engine number (3 = All firebirds manufactured in 1967)
4th and 5th digits are the body type and number: (37 = 2dr coupe)
6th digit is the last number in the model year i.e. 1967
7th digit is a letter indicating the assembly plant (U = Lordstown, OH)
109423 is the sequential production number unique to Firebird 400 Coupes.

BODY BY FISHER Trim Plate verifies the authenticity of this unique Firebird:
02C (BUILD DATE: 02 = February, C = Third Week)
67 222637 (67 =1967, 2 = Division 2 which is Pontiac, 26=Custom Trim, 37 = Firebird Coupe)
259-Z (259 = Black Vinyl, Z= Custom Interior);
EL (E =Tinted Glass, L =Folding Rear Seat);
2ZGUS (Z= 3-Speed Automatic Transmission, G =Console, U = Stereo Tape Player, S = Rear Antenna);
3DF (D=?, F = 400 Option);
4F (F = Outside Remote Mirror);
5Y (Y = Deluxe Seats)
R-R (R= Regimental Red)
Source: http://www.firebirdgallery.com/67codes.htm


1) The car was purchased in Shelton Washington at the Shelton Motor Company in April 1967. I have at least 40 service receipts from Shelton Motor Co. and other service providers dating from June 1967 - February 1992. The last service receipt shows the car had 63,605 on Feb. 4, 1992.
2) The second owner bought the car in Oct. 17, 1992 through McLeods Auction Group out of Kirkland Washington and took it to Snohomish Washington.
3) Third owner bought in late 1994. The first service receipt from this owner is dated Jan. 25, 1995 when it had about 69,434 miles on it. I have about 20 service receipts dating from January 25,1995 through November 21, 1998. The last couple of receipts did not have the mileage on it, but one from August, 1998 showed the car as having 87,407 miles.
4) The fourth owner bought the car on May 21, 2002.
5) I purchased the car from on September 6, 2011 when it had 107,865 miles.

I just had the car appraised on February 27, 2015 by an Oregon DMV certified car appraiser automobiles (Oregon DMV Appraiser Certificate No. V03-035), and the car appraised for $35,000. Hemmings buyers guide (online) provides a low/high range of $12,000 to $44,500. Hagerty Valuation Tools puts this car at $49,300 as of December 2014 (admittedly the high end, but given it's well documented, highly factory option, true survivor status, perhaps accurate?).
[i][/i]

If she still has her original paint, you are probably in the ballpark of low 30's. Less if repainted. You might find a buyer willing to go a bit higher. But I'd doubt you are anywhere near the $49,300 number.

I'm going to say with the paperwork, originality, condition...without seeing it firsthand. $45-50k. That's what I believe it's worth with documentation. Hard to come by like that.

The cons.

Its an auto..

Real world selling price? $33 to 36k.

You could try Barrett Jackson or Mecum. Yes, you would pay a premium to transport and sell, but the exposure and high level of that car would be worth the dice roll.

Again...from what I see...this is a car worth keeping, waiting for the right money and not dumping for easy fast cash. If I owned that car and could wait it out...I would take no less than $40

Normally I would agree, but I think you have to consider these points that will increase it's value considerably:

- rare options: remote mirror, folding rear seat, rear-window defroster, cruise control, and stereo 8-track player, Seat Belts – Custom Front & Rear (Fisher Carriage Emblem), Glass – Soft Ray – All Windows (tint);
- Original documentation (history): build sheet, sticker Price, service record,
- survivor status
- car is unmolested
- 67 bird with those options is worth more than a 68
- dealer Installed Options (honorable mention): Undercoat ($40.00), Simonizing ($25.00), and a portable compressed air tank ($42.00)

We should compare this to Mark's original survivor 68 blue vert.

What's it worth? You will know once you get 2 buyers wanting to buy it.

I think that might be a US price. Europe and Canada the price would higher ($15k+ more).

The only true way to determine foreign market would be to enlist a professional classic car consignor with excellent marketing skills for a percentage of selling price. Typical is 3% to 8% depending on consignor.

Stay away from consignors who deal with late model foreign exotics or pre 1960 European as they command much higher seller premium.

You will be hard pressed to find a buyer with disposable income on eBay or Craigslist with the well optioned and documented Firebird you have. Sellers with a Ram Air Judge/GTO or a Ram Air Firebird/Trans Am have a difficult time in those online arenas.

You have done an excellent job initially describing the strong points, options, rarity (strong documentation/survivor). I would hone in on that with detailed pics of casting numbers, dates, carb number, undercarriage etc.

Collectors and enthusiasts alike will spend more for a complete and correct car. It's throwing that complete and correct in someone's face so to speak and knowing a buyer would be hard pressed to find a similar car in that condition.

Here are some nos from Hagerty. They need more data (comparables) but it's a start.

Wow, you guys are great! Thank you so much for your insights and very well regarded thoughts! I got on the Hagerty Valuation Tools Website and entered the VIN number to the car. It gave me a couple more options to click on, specifically a 1967 Firebird 400 (non-Ram Air). The output was a graph that provided a price of $49,300 for a condition 1 car. I attached a photo of it in my photobucket page. 1967 Firebird 400 Hagerty Valuation (non Ram pricing)

I'm going to lean in Banshee's direction and 2nd the motion that this car would most likely due well through one of the more popular muscle car auctions.

I receive Hemmings Muscle Machines and when you read there feedback from auctions, you see that heavily optioned cars with stories like yours and all the original documentation goes a long way toward a good sale.

Take my 67 PMD Engineering car in my signature as an elaboration. 32 options..all there sans engine. Billing history lists it as $4,235. As it sits, the car is the atypical "roller" worth maybe 4k. With the PHS showing it is a PMD Engineering car (1 of 3 known to exist) is it worth more? Just as your 67...documentation is a strong suit to the right buyer. If I were to sell to a guy who just wants a project, I'd be lucky to get 3 or 4k. To a guy who wants the PMD Engineering moniker to restore it (albeit incorrect) it could fetch a lot more.

What I'm getting at is waiting for the right buyer with the right cash at the right time. I would rather let my 67 rot than short change the prominence.

The Hagerty put you listed is for either the 1967 Ram Air Firebird (1 of 65) or the 1968 Ram Air I (419 produced) and RA II Firebird (104 produced) of 108,400

Aside from that, Hagerty compiles data from Mecum and Barrett Jackson (et al) for their estimates as it relates to real world insurance valuation.

Is it a start? Somewhat..but again, those numbers are relative to the coveted extremely low production RAI/II which commands 40 to 70% over a comparable 400 Firebird.

Banshee,

I got on the Hagerty website and entered my cars VIN number and it gave me a few more options than the 6 that automatically come up. You are correct about the RAM pricing as it shows up as high as $75,300.

1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 Convertible 2 dr 8-cyl. 400cid/325hp 4bbl Ram Air
1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 Coupe 2 dr 8-cyl. 400cid/325hp 4bbl Ram Air
1967 Pontiac Firebird Convertible 2 dr 8-cyl. 326cid/250hp 2bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird Convertible 2 dr 8-cyl. 326cid/285hp 4bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe 2 dr 8-cyl. 326cid/250hp 2bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe 2 dr 8-cyl. 326cid/285hp 4bbl

I entered my VIN number and I got a total of 7 options, I clicked on the Coupe 400cid 4 bbl (not the Ram Air) and got the $49,300 price as the high range for December 2014. Below is the output on the VIN search:

1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe 2 dr 8-cyl. 326cid/250hp 2bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe 2 dr 6-cyl. 230cid/155hp 1bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe 2 dr 8-cyl. 400cid/325hp 4bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe 2 dr 6-cyl. 230cid/165hp 1bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe 2 dr 8-cyl. 326cid/285hp 4bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird Sprint Coupe 2 dr 6-cyl. 230cid/215hp 4bbl
1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 Coupe 2 dr 8-cyl. 400cid/325hp 4bbl Ram Air
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe 2 dr 8-cyl. 326cid/285hp 4bbl


I do realize that this valuation tool is an approximation and predominately used for insurance purposes. I have two questions for you that might help me out. Assuming that I have settled on a mid to high thirty price range ($35k - 39k), what would be the best venue to sell my car? Ebay? National consignor? If you think national consignor, can you recommend any company or person?

Your thoughts and expertise is greatly appreciated!

Michael

I would try and list your car on Ebay or Craigslist first to get a feel for the market. Pontiac collectors are finicky. Most go for the Ram air HO and Super Duty stuff. A very small limited number of guys go for what you have. You'd have to find a buyer wanting that color, year, condition...you can find 30 buyers at 20k, 10 buyers at 30k and maybe 1 or 2 at 40k. The key is to get the word out with Mecum or Barrett Jackson. Keep in mind you'd want to watch the lots up for auction and consider pulling out if comparable birds in your condition dilute the auction. No seller wants to go to sell a firebird on a buyers market where there are 8 birds up for sale. As far as consignment..you are at a tough spot to sell geographically. Even for Mecum or BJ, your transport costs could be 3k plus...so, that's also a consideration.

Taking this into account...you may want to split the difference with incurred expense (transport costs to auction, sellers fees, premium) and perhaps ask for 37 or 38. You have a nice csr...and I'd hate to see it go for less.

Mecum is in Seattle in June.

PM sent