Not sure if this goes here, but here we go.

Ive had my car in the shop since September of last year. I slipped a bearing and the entire engine went to crap. I saw them take it apart and saw that a few parts were missing that were essential to protecting the engine. The plate that went under the crank shaft between the oil pan wasnt there and the tube for the dipstick was gone. The dipstick broke off in my engine and they showed me a small scar in the cylinder wall. The crank shaft they said was ruined, the cam, and all my pistons/rods. So we got a new block and ordered all tge parts. Paid almost 6K including labor. Every time Id ask he'd say 2 weeks and itd be ready, but every two weeks were still waiting on parts, machine shop, whatever. Then over christmas he said itd be ready, then he got into a car wreck and we had to wait. Now its feb, we've got the parts, but he hasnt started yet. Said he'd be ready today but I called and he only just got the rods and pistons back from the machine shop. This is taking forever, its my daily driver, and Ive been getting a bad feeling for months now. Am I getting [censored] with? Theres no profit in keeping my car, so is he just slow, or is this normal? My dad is feeling bad about it too and he's been around muscle cars his whole life. Im in the Army and Im alone out here where Im stationed, so do I just ride it out until its done? Am I getting taken advantage of?

Hey there,
Unfortunately this is very common on how folks do business these days. The only thing I would recommend to do is have a commitment from him on cost and completion date. He expects you to pay for his services, you can demand cost and completion date. Always make sure you know exactly what's being done, when and $$. A surprise will always be an unpleasant one. If you can't get a satisfying response, than he most likely will mess things up down the road. Than I would yank it from him. There are a lot of engine builders out there, he's not the only one. Hope that helps.

Yeah you're right about there being more. If anyone is in the Fort Gordon, Georgia area some advice/help would be great for local mechanics. This guy has cut me deals in the past and it seems like he's taking care of me. Him and two other guys run the shop and they have a lot on their hands. I understand he feels the pressure but at the same time, my car has been there for five months and it's time for me to be the priority.

I'm a little too deep into it already to switch mechanics it feels like. We've paid for the parts and part of the labor that he's done already, and I'm holding back the rest of the money for after my car is finished and I'm driving off the lot. I'm hoping I won't ever have a problem with my engine again after this. Who knows.

Most states have laws around written estimates for car repairs and how a detailed quote with costs should be provided as well as time frames for the work. Any paperwork, receipts, etc. you can get put them together and keep them safe.

You might want to check Georgia's DMV website for consumer information.

I went through Fort Gordon 23 years ago, so any info I've got is long outdated.

Just for price comparison
Last pontiac 400 I built was $4600.00 total with machine shop labor and brand new rods and pistons....etc, brand new valves and springs, cam, lifters. This was using customers block, crankshaft, cylinder heads

I'd love to see the parts list with prices.

There is no doubt that you are getting jacked.

Fist off thank you for your service to the country.

The parts list would be the key to the price. Also did the mechanic pull the motor and is he putting it back in? Any head work to go along with it? Is he handling all the misc stuff like break in? Is he going to guarantee his work? If so then the price would seem in line.

Just some random thoughts. The windage tray that was missing is not 100% needed especially if the oil pan is baffled. The factory ones tend to crack. I have heard noting but good things about the aftermarket ones sold through Buttler.

The missing tube on the inside is also a common problem and most end up with the same issue you did. The dipstick gets broke off causing damage.

For myself I'm a big stickler on parts. I spend enough time on the PY board to know what parts are good and what to stay away from. It also depends greatly on the performance level your trying to achieve.

I hope it all works out for you.

I guess what you are paying/paid depends on what exactly was done and may or may not be fair. If you could, post exactly what was done. Depending on what exactly was done to your engine would determine where your $6000 went. See what the breakdown is. I would expect for $6000, new name brand quality rods, pistons...essentially all hard parts replaced with name brand items.

The last 400 Dave prepped for me 4 years ago was roughly $4100....jobber cost (his cost) on parts. One can assume a fair price for R&R on the engine and assembly...I believe Dave charges $400-500 to assemble a long block. I also believe a fair estimate to remove and replace an engine would be $500. I disassembled my engine, took it to him and did the following..

Block gone through, degreased, baked, blasted, bored, aligned honed, decked.
Crank polished, rotating assembly balanced
Heads cleaned trued
Heads SERDI cut
Pistons pressed on rods

New Ferrea valves
Comp Cams 995 springs, locks, retainers, cam.
Harland Sharp rockers
Scat rods
SRP pistons, rings
Clevite bearings, Melling pump, gasket set, pushrods, lifters, timing chain,
Pertronix kit, existing distributor, new gear.
Rochester rebuild kit.

Heads were assembled at shop, I assembled the block and rebuilt carb.

Consider that a shop more than likely has to farm out a lot of this work and you will be paying a premium over what the shop has to pay due to the reality they have to send out a guy to pick up parts, drop off a crank to be turned...take the heads to be worked on etc.

Just food for thought, maybe lesson learned...depending on what a shop says that needs to be done...and if extreme...next time I would do all of the prep and disassembly...take it to a PONTIAC builder...have him assemble the entire engine and drop it in if you are not comfortable doing such.

Sorry to hear that you are getting jerked around. I am in Georgia, but nowhere close to Augusta...
If you decide to pull the plug on this guy and get your motor and parts back I can recommend a shop or two in this area, but it would be a bit much to drag the car here to install the engine.
Cal

My 400 is sitting at the builder right now as well. I am in for $5k, and the only thing being kept is the block. Everything else is scrapped.

I took a tour of the guy's garage, to see how he kept his stuff.... It was all clean and organized. He has a machine shop in his garage, which is good for keeping cost down.

Sucks to be messed with.

It sounds to me the problem is getting the guy to actually do the work and deliver a completed engine, not necessarily the price of the parts. You will have to have a serious discussion with him to insure your build will be his priority., He already has your money and engine, talk with him and get him to commit to a timetable. Most issues can be worked out if both sides honestly and fully know what the other is expecting.

It's usually better to get a builder who also does the machining but you're already past that point.

One can buy a rebuild kit for a Chev 350 for almost nothing compared to the costs of the same parts for a Pontiac. Just a matter of numbers of SBCs being rebuilt compared to how many Pontiacs. My last build, although not just a simple rebuild, cost me close to $11,000 just in parts I did all the work myself. A bearing and ring job is one thing but once you get into replacing all the internals the costs rise fast.

So, a little update. All the parts are paid fir and I'm still witholding labor. He had to get new bearings because when he finally got around to it he realized the company sent him the wrong ones. I waited a week for those and now Im waiting to get a finished product. He said he worked on it all weekend but he's not done. He said it would be done this week but we'll see. After having all the parts, if he makes my engine a priority, how much longer should this take? I understand he's an old man but my ride has been in the shop since September. This just seems absurd to me and it's my only car. Now I'm stuck driving my girlfriend's Fiat 500! Lol. I think my next engine failure I'll just go for a Chevy 350 and call it quits on Pontiac parts. The prices and wait times are enormous. As much as I love the 400, I can't go months without my bird again.

When I get home from work Ill post the parts list and breakdown of what's being done and what has been done so far. I did some research and it seems these things do take a long, long time. He's even started warning other Pontiac 400 owners about how long it'll take. I guess he may not have even known the full extent.

It just doesn't take that long to get parts for a Pontiac motor. Butler Performance, in Alabama, could have supplied everything you need off the shelf.

Your builder is a criminal.

Your scenario reminds so much of my experience with the oldtimer that did my work. I called him a POS in his face, and according how you've been treated it seems your guy would qualify for this name. There's just no reason anyone should take 6 months to get parts and put a motor together. Did he tell you ahead of time it will take 6-12 months to do the work? Its always easy to make suggestions after the fact, but you can't really trust anyone and one should have L/T and labor/part cost in writing. Had I done so, I would have won my case. I did end up taking him to small claims court over excessive L/T time and charging 3x what he agreed to (nothing in writing though, just a man's handshake). Sad that the world has become this way. Hang in there, demand a completion date from him.

I'm going to go in tomorrow or Monday and tell him I need it by April 4th. He's had the parts since December and my car since September. Is this okay to do? What should I keep in mind before doing this? Should I be prepared fir backlash? If it's not done by April 4th my dad and I and some friends will go and get it and my parts. I'm so worried about this. He could give me the wrong parts or anything could happen. Got a million things running through my head about this.

Don't let this [censored] walk over you. You paid for the parts, he promissed completion dates and did not deliver. Time to be firm!!!!

I have a few questions...

1. Is the shop a legitimate business? (Registered repair shop or 3 guys working out of a garage).
2. Do you have any documentation stating the work to be done for a certain price?

It's sad to say but what your describing sounds like a con that is all too common for military personnel. Unscrupulous business owners (con-artists) think because your in the military and that you will not be there (Georgia) forever, you make an easy mark. The game is get your money up front and delay, delay, delay then lie, lie, lie until you deploy or change duty station.

I'm not an expert, rather a former Marine that has seen this con go down a time or five. If I was to suggest a course of action I would recommend you collect any and all documentation that you have. Write yourself a story (type-it-out) as to your interactions with this buisness starting with day one an ending with today. Finally I would go see base legal and tell them your issue, they will not be able to help rather they will point you in the direction of a good (trustworthy) local attorney that can help you. Nine out of ten times when an attorney calls a shop that is defrauding a service member they get the message and make good. As for your case, I would ask for your money back less "documented" labor and parts. I'm willing to bet he has not ordered a single thing, therefore he will have no labor other than teardown. This guy has shown you that you DO NOT want him building your engine. Good luck man and I truly hope this is not the case however it reads rather suspicious from things you have said.

I would not have your Dad and his friends help, direct confrontation will lead to further issues... Besides solider, handle yours... you know better than most there is a time to fight and a time to use your brain judo and tap this MF out.

I would second what Goose has said, as a retired Marine I think he (Goose) is spot on when it comes to military folks and dealing with a shady business.

Is this guys name Bruce Fulper?

That's some funny Sh%# right there

That's funny that you say this. It is three guys working out of a garage, but it's a large, six car garage that's gated. He's got a lot of cars out there and they've done work for me in the past. They're constantly doing work on different vehicles. He bought all the parts (I've seen them), but checking it out today after two weekends of him claiming he's worked on it, all I saw was the crank shaft was installed into the block. Not really two weekends worth of work, is it? Not to mention he says he won't work on weekdays because people bother him all the time and he doesn't get time to focus on the engine. I have a receipt listing every part I've purchased, with labor costs and cost of the engine block. I've seen everything I've paid for but he's being soooo slow. The idea of him delaying and lying until I PCS or deploy scares the [censored] out of me. I need to get my car out of there and I think we're just going to go and get it with a flat bed. I'll talk to legal though and see what they think for sure. Both are viable options and I'll examine and weigh both.

Thanks everyone for supporting me through this! Let's see where this goes.

UPDATE: I've consulted with Legal Assistance on post and gotten an appointment to sit down with the JAG Officer. They think it's possible for me to take this to a small claim's court if it comes down to any damages, missing parts, or failure to follow through. We're picking up the car on Thursday. The local Sheriff here said to give them a call if there's any problems retrieving the car. Going to get with the towing company and get the car, engine, and parts to another shop. These are the guys I'm bringing my stuff to: http://dillonrodsandclassics.com/ . The guy there seems pretty straight so we'll see how this goes. He said with all the parts and motor they could have it done in two weeks, and he seems pretty supportive of what's going on.

Thanks again for all the backup guys! I know we all love our cars and I wanted you all to know that this bird will fly again! I'll have pictures when it's back on the road and this trouble is behind me.

Without a written contract regarding time frame to complete work, not much as far as damages can be sought. The contract should have been initiated at point of delivery.

What he says after the fact is of little or no consequence as it relates to completion.

Best you can do is get your car and all the parts and learn.

Any updates on the situation?

Hey Goose, I was waiting until I had my car back in my hands and on the road to say anything, but I'll update now anyway:

The car is safe. Me and two of my good friends went over with a flatbed and a pickup and rescued my car. The old mechanic was quite upset and I had to keep reminding him that there was nothing he could do but let me leave with my car, parts, and motor. We got what he would give us on the spot, took inventory with pictures, and road away to a new mechanic. The old mechanic left out a lot of parts, including the new aftermarket distributor. He also gave me an incorrect carburetor which required us to purchase an adapter for the intake to make it work.

My new mechanic took me and my motor to a trusted machine shop he's used for years where they re-machined and rebuilt the engine in just two days (versus the 7 months it took my old mechanic to install just the crank shaft into the motor). They ordered parts for the engine that the old mechanic didn't give me (he provided me with aged/used rocker arms and push rods, to name just two) and had it all ready to go after last weekend. The new mechanic picked up the motor and brought it back to his shop to finish it up and drop it in my car. Right now we're waiting on an HEI distributor we ordered to arrive from Summit and the dipstick tubing that goes into the oil pan to arrive from ebay. I will have my car back next week, built, guaranteed to last, and roaring down the road.

The guy finishing up my engine and putting it into my car is mainly a body work guy who does all his own fabrication and body work. He's really good from what I've seen of his work and is doing my engine after my father and I explained what happened. So far, he's kept me updated every step of the way, and will be providing me a packet of all the work done, including receipts on parts he ordered and information I can take with me to bring to any new mechanics I find in case work needs to be done in the future. I think this is what "the right way" feels like, and although I'm a little slower to trust this time around, I'm certain I'll have my Bird back next week and running strong.

As for the money I wasted on the last mechanic, I'm working with base legal and my lawyer to see what my options are. Legal assistance on post says that I'll be able to take him to small claims court with what I have on him. 7 months of time, wrong parts, used parts, and missing parts with receipts to show that I paid for high quality, expensive parts and labor that I wasn't provided in the end. We'll see what happens with that- The lawyers will put my legal packet together free of charge so I have nothing to lose by investigating the paths I can take. I have been calling my old mechanic demanding the money or parts he owes me, and after much anger, he's promised to call tomorrow so I can either pick up parts or money. So this may not even have to go to court after all.

Thanks for everyone's support! This thread has been a huge help and I've learned from a lot of you what direction to go and what to be weary of in the future. Lessons learned.

Good to hear it's coming to a close and that you will have your bird up and going soon!

And thanks to all in this thread who serve the U.S.

Good news for sure!
Cal

Glad you got most of this taken care of and your car is in work to being completed!! Hope you get everything back that you can from that POS mech. Semper Fi!

Thats awesome glad your on the right path and tracking... You will have to let us know how she goes...