Ok, need some ideas. Replaced the whole brake system, Drums around. tried to vacuum bleed the lines initially and then we both got on it by bleeding it the traditional way. I've put over a quart through it now, I don't see any air in the fluid as we bleed it .
It does have brakes, it doesn't lock up and the pedal goes al the way to the floor .

I'm presuming I should have full brake at 50% pedal

Is there just air stuck in there somewhere?
If so, how do I get it out?

Drums around, power brakes, new everything

Thanks bill v

Some thoughts.....

Is the rod that goes from you brake pedal to the booster in the right hole of the brake pedal? That Rod is also adjustable,
Did you bench bleed the master cylinder before putting it on?

Could a bad master cylinder cause this issue?

Did you start bleeding from the back passenger first the back driver, front passenger,front drive?

Did you Make sure there were are no leaks?

That is all I have.

It does sond like the master needs to be bled.

OK guys, I've said many times I'm a novice auto mechanic

I have the right connection on the pedal lever

Heres the bad part, I didn’t bench bleed the MC, I had no idea this needed to be done, oops! what do I do to rectify this?
I just found a MC bleeding procedure in the service manual, will that do the trick for bench bleeding ?

no leaks that I know of and I did bleed in the sequence you mentioned.

Harold and Bluebird, Thanks

Auto parts houses sell MC bleeder kits. Often a new MC comes with them. They usually contain plastic fittings with small hose nipples on the end and short sections of rubber hose.

Take the cover off the MC and put it into a vice. Insert the plastic fittings into the MC outlets on the side for the front and rear brake systems. Install the hoses and route the up and over and back into the open MC reservoirs, front hose to front reservoir, rear to rear. I used office supply binder clips on the sides and separating wall of the MC with the chrome metals "ears" up to route the hoses and keep them pointed into the reservoirs.

Fill the MC reservoirs about 1/2 way with brake fluid. Using a wooden dowel of the correct diameter, push on the plunger at the firewall end of MC until the hoses squirt only fluid and not air bubbles.

When you remove the MC from the vice, you can remove most of the fluid, but not all. Do not allow air back into the ports at the bottom of the reservoirs. You can leave the hoses on the plastic fittings to prevent fluid from leaking out or find plugs for the hose nipples. The later allows you to put the cap back on the MC when putting back in the car. You MUST put towels or something under the side brake line connections after the MC is bolted to the firewall or PB booster to prevent the fluid from dripping out and ruining something while you are reconnecting the brake lines to the MC.

Good pic.
You could leave the master in the car and bleed it, follow the instructions Salmon has given you only have someone push the brake pedal to push the piston instead of the wooden dowel, while you look for the air bubbles. Make sure you put a lot of towels under and around the master, brake fluid eats paint, plastic etc...

I just had another thought if bleeding the master doesn't help, I'm sure it will.

After the drums are installed the shoes have to be adjusted to limit the amount of travel. They should be adjusted close to the drums. you can check the manual for the sequence.

I've heard of some new master cylinders being sold without the outlet port check valves installed. Drum brakes must have a valve to keep a little pressure in the lines after the pedal is released. Systems with front disc and rear drums only have valves in the rear port. Some masters with no rear valves will have a check valve in the rear brake line under the floor. When you have your output lines off the master to bleed it check that the check valves are in the outlet ports.

Bill, I am going to say that you have already bled the MC if you have put over a qt. of fluid through the system.
Before backing up and starting over I would suggest that you adjust all the brakes first. I have always after assembly of drum brakes just smacked them back and forth a couple times and then center them on the backing plate. Install the drum and adjust to where I can just hear them scrub or feel a slight drag while spinning the drum. Do this on all four corners.

Now a word on bleeding - the old fashioned way. And I only put this in here because you have said you have little mechanical experience... the way I have done it: After adjusting the shoes as described above, helper steps on brake and holds it down. Open bleeder valve. Helper holds pedal to the floor, shut bleeder valve. Repeat as necessary. Do RR, LR, RF & LF in that order. I have used clear plastic tubing from the bleeder valve into a glass jar to help watching for bubbles and have less mess; but I have probably not used it more that I have used it.

By adjusting the shoes and bleeding as above you ought to get some pedal. If not, back up and bleed the MC separate - but I am thinking you have already done that...
If you were bleeding correctly, I apologize.
Cal

One thing I forgot to mention above,
the brake light would come on a lot of the time when the car was running while pushing the brake pedal
( I presume because I didn't prime the M S)

This is what we did and where we stand now

1, I loosened the lines coming out MS about half way, had wife push down pedal and hold, I tightened fitting
did this with both lines, 3 times

2, bleed brakes all 4 again

3, had wife depress pedal, I cracked fitting at MS, bled a little oil and tightened right back up, both lines

4, bled brakes again, all 4

5, checked and adjusted brakes, adj'd r-rear slightly, and adj'd left front quite a bit

stopped there for the day

Results,
1,brake light no longer comes on

2, pedal still goes pretty far down to floor

3,at 15-20 mph car stopped fairly quick, no lock-up, not much pedal

Question, does it sound like I satisfied the MS bleeding?

whats next, keep bleeding?

Thanks bill v

Do you have bleeders on the MC? If you do your bleeding sequence changes....MC first, LF, RF, RR, LR. If you don't, pull the MC cap off and check the rubber seal in the cap. If the 2 rubber caps for each reservoir are flat and flush you're good, but I bet they are pointing outward? If they do you're pulling air i.e. you have a leak somewhere. I would check all 4 wheel cylinders and make sure: 1. There are absolutely no leaks, 2. Have your wife depress the pedal slightly and make sure both sides on each cylinder are moving, Once you have that eliminated, check the MC for leaks near the booster. Then check the proportioning valve(s) if you have one under the driver's seat. Measure your rear drums and make sure they are 9.500 or .050 over max. I would also suggest to get the Russell's speed bleeders, if your wife is like mine she will soon tell you"I ain't bleed'n your [censored] car no more!" With the speed bleeders you won't need an assistant. Take your time, some things are just a PITA to figure out, you'll find it.

I'd still take the master off and bleed it properly with the bleed hoses and fittings as Salmon showed you in his pic. Some master cylinders are a pain to get the air out of. You may as well do it with the bleed kit then you know it's done correctly. While you're at it check to make sure the check valves are installed. Then reinstall and bleed brake wheel cylinders. The shoes all have to be adjusted correctly or you will get too much travel. The master has to have check valves or you will get too much travel.
My two cents for what it's worth.

Bill, you have made some progress. The light stays off and the car stops...
A couple questions now, when you push and hold the brake pedal; will it hold a pedal or does it slowly keep sinking to the floor?
Can you pump the brakes and get a better pedal?
Cal

OK, got back on it today. this is what I did

1, i bleed the MS. I removed the 2 line and set it up like in the photo above. didn't seem to be much air but it was bleed using the pedal as the MS was still mounted on car.

2. bleed more and more

3. changed push rod. when I recieved the new booster and MS . they sent me 2 different lengths push rods. The one was way too long, I figured that it was for a different application, one I'm not aware of. so, I started wondering if maybe they sent the wrong rod. I pulled the ms without unhooking the line, pulled it forward and pulled out the push rod. I still had the old setup still together. I pulled that apart and compared rods. The old one was exactly 1/8" longer. I cleaned it up and installed the old rod. it did give me a little more pedal but not what I expect
I bleed some more. I talked with Cal H. and he investigated the part # of the MS and it appears that the MS is probably the correct part.

This afternoon I had a nieghbor stopped by(69 Corvette) he asked what was going on, told him my troubles etc...

after his questions, his opinion is more bleeding. through our discussion he hears that i was bleeding with the MS cap on, he thinks it might be better with cap off, whats your opinion???

Try again tomorrow

bill v

Good morning Bill,
I have never bled the lines with the cap off. Sounds like it would be a recipe for a big mess of brake fluid where it ought not to be...
After we spoke yesterday, did you drive it any? Does it pull to either side when applying the brakes?

For others reading this thread, Bill has power drums all around. He has been bleeding with the car not running. Would this make a difference? It would not to my knowledge, but there is something going on here that is keeping Bill from getting a good pedal. He described it yesterday (correct me if I am wrong or if different today Bill) as no resistance until the pedal is close to the floor and then a total firm stop of pedal movement.

Bill got the new/reman MC and booster setup from Ames. The MC part no. was/is P2040. NAPA sells a reman MC with this same part no. and lists the application as for a 69 Firebird with drum brakes. It appears that the MC is the same whether it has power or no power brakes.

Bill, can you find any casting numbers on the old MC and booster?
Cal

If it's still not right I would suggest removing the master from the car and "bench " bleeding it. Tilt it at about 10 degress down in front so the air is forced to the top and hopefully can be expelled. Push the piston 10-15 times all the way in slowly using the recirculating hose bleed kit( like was shown in an earlier pic). Re-install on the car and bleed each wheel never letting the master go empty.

OK, this is where we're at.

Jacked the back of the car up. master cyl was near level, pressurized it and loosened the fitting on the rear line on top of the rear housing at the junction where the right and left lines split. did that twice. then bleed the lines with the MC lid just sitting on top.

we now have brakes and more pedal , although not as much as I would expect or want but, the car stops pretty good. I think when I get a chance I will bench bleed again as suggested above. I am going to add a picture of the rods I was talking about. The old rod that came out of the original set up is now in the car, its exactly .125" longer
Don't know how much this helped. I believe that I have .017" of play between the booster rod end and the master cylinder piston in the unpowered position.

And to give a little info on earlier help, This master cylinder didnot have bleeders, wish it did

Thanks for your help guys, I've learned a lot on this one.

bill v

oops! picture

Bill, didn't we discuss at the pipes car show gravity bleeding? I'm sure we did its really the only way my two power brake car ever bleeded right.. Ron