Hi guys,

So yesterday I was cruising in my 326 1967 Bird (original engine), when all off a sudden the engine stopped... Last april I did a 500 miles road trip without issues. Yesterday was the first time since that trip I had time to take her for a spin, so I did. Engine started without problems, let it idle for a bot and took off. Top was down, sun was shining, all was well in the world. The throttle response was maybe a fraction late, but engine was stilling warming up. At a round-about I had the feeling that when I reved the engine, that was no mediate response, like it was in neutral, and emidiately after the engine shut off in the middle of the road. I thought it was just a hick up or something, sometimes when it is cold that can happen, but then it usually easily fires up again, but not this time.. Starter would turn, but engine would not fire up. I tried some starter help spray in the intake, which usually helps, but nothing. Since it didn't even rumble a little bit, I suspected I had no spark perhaps. Pulled a spark plug and tested it when somebody from the road help department arrived, but it sparked just fine. I could also smell gas, so it wasn't the carb. I dod notice that it seems to be only the starter engine that turned when trying to start, and not the engine. The road help assistance guy had a compression meter, so measured compression: no compression.. No pressure at the exhaust either while cranking the starter.

So... Something in the distribution went pear shaped. What is most likely? And obviously: what to do?

Any thoughts, tips, etc welcome. Thanx guys.

Clarification: Does the engine actually turn over? On the one hand you state that it appears the starter is turning but not the engine but later on you said you did a complete compression test on the side of the road.

If the engine indeed spins and you have no compression at all, I am going to suggest timing chain if the motor has high mileage.

However, I will point out weird things can happen. This exact same thing happened to me on my first car (Mustang) and I had to pull the engine and take it apart. I got it stripped all the way down to the timing chain and discovered the alignment pin on the front of the camshaft had sheared off.

Pull all spark plugs and check the cranking compression in all 8 cylinders and go from there.
If you have cylinders that are 40-70 psi lower than others you do have mechanical problems such as valves or piston ring sealing.
But even if a few cylinders are that low the engine should run but running really rough.
Also check that the distributor is spinning when the engine is turning over.

I agree with salmon. Sounds just like a broken timing chain, assuming the engine itself is not turning over.

Time for a complete engine rebuild... You'll be glad you did in the long run.

Pull the timing cover and see what you got. Should be just an afternoon job. No reason to do a complete rebuild IMO.

Based on what I read, I would suspect the timing chain jumped.

Before tearing it apart, you might want to put a timing light on #1, crank the engine, light up the timing mark, and see what it reads.

If there's a chance the chain jumped, you may have damaged valves, [contacted a piston]. I would pull all the plugs and turn it by hand to check/feel if there's an interference problem. However, If you've done a compression test the damage is already done.
Pull the left valve cover and see where the timing mark is [before TDC] after the intake valve on cylinder #1 closes.

Many moons ago when I worked as an auto mech, we had a guy come in with a truck with a SBC that wouldn't start. We all thought is was a broken timing chain. The owner was shocked when we only charged $35 for the repair. Turns out it was a carbon track in the distributor. We R&R'd the cap & rotor and it fired right up..

Timing belt jumped. garage says there is no large damage to pistons or valves though. He proposes to take it apart and clean it all out. Thoughts..?

If the engine has enough wear on it to have the timing chain "jump", I would say it's time for a rebuild.

Well, your car does not have a timing belt. It is a chain.
What, exactly, does he plan to take apart and "clean up"?
Cal

If the engine is all original and has never had major service, a rebuild is probably the best option..

Sorry, my bad, I meant the chain of course. Plan is to take the engine out, take it apart, and put it all back together after everything has been cleaned up. There was quite a bit of sludge..

Looks like someone never changed the oil in that engine.
Better have a good look at camshaft and lifters when an engine is in that condition.

Yup, I agree with bigchief on this. If your plan is to keep the car long term, look at the rebuild as an investment in it.
Cal

Holy mother of ***, that sludge buildup is fantastically EPIC! The 56 Corvette I had that sat for 35 years didn't look even half that bad, wow!

I would do at least a minimal R&R on it personally (AKA: welfare rebuild). Get everything cleaned, inspected, hone the cylinders, new rings/bearings, and call her good. In addition to the new timing chain/gears of course.

Many years ago when I took high school shop class, there was a late-70's Buick in the shop with engine failure. The cause of the engine failure was the rocker valley underneath the intake was packed completely full with sludge. So much that the valves could no longer travel up/down and they bent.

Agree with changing oil is one issue, but also using different viscosity's of oil intermixed can increase the likelihood of sludge build up. From your picture, I would be sure there is more sludge elsewhere.

No question about it. Rebuild time. That engine has been neglected, BIG TIME!!!

Wouter- good to hear from you! Hope all is well other than this big issue. I would echo others in saying your best bet (assuming you are keeping the car) is rebuild the motor. You will already pay for gaskets and labor for teardown and putting it back together if you are only cleaning. I think you would be better off.
Just my opinion.

Good luck!

Thanx! Surely I am keeping the car. All is well here, hope everybody here is okay as well.

Here some more pics:

Wow, that baby has seen some miles of enjoyment. Just out of curiosity , how is the transmission?

Tranny appears to be okay. Took off the pan and cleaned out the body there, and replaced the gaskets, amd funtions okay. No sludge there. So just rebuilding the engine for now, I think. Or do people suggest it would be a bad call not to do it now, while we're at it....?

My comment would be that its all out now, why not do it together? Its easier to install the trans to the engine, then put it all back in the car assembled.

But if you don't mind pulling the trans out later to deal with separate issues, then just take care of the engine now.

I bit the bullet and decided to do a transmission revision while we're at it as well.

I think that's a great decision! Keep us posted on progress.

X2!

Man! that poor engine has so much sludge it looks like it had an internal fire.
Is it just my eyes or does the gear on the front of the cam look like it's got a couple of broken teeth?
Wouter, that is a nice looking car, I'm sure you will have as nice an engine when you are done.
Good luck.

Thus the jumped timing chain that caused the teardown.

Looks like an original GM timing gear. Back then the gears were encased in a plastic [nylon?] to reduce noise. Unfortunately they didn't have the longevity of an all steel gear set. Often the plastic breaks off and ends up in the oil pan & oil pump pick-up.

A thing of beauty!

You need to find some of the.metalic first gen color for that baby.

Yeah, I asked and the shop said they knew what the colour was. This looks off though.

Is there a specific colour-code for the Pontiac engine Blue?

Pontiac Metallic blue 66-72
I used Bill Hirsch
http://www.hirschauto.com/ENGINE-ENAMEL/productinfo/EE-QUART/PON%20M%20BL%20E/

He sais (the engine shop) this is the correct paint for 1967 Pontiac engine:




Is that correct?

Already found here that Hirsch engine paint would be the way to go. The PONTIAC METALLIC BLUE 1966-72 I presume.

I ordered 4 just to be sure I have enough and will have it respraid.

I use Krylon Dupli-color DE1616

That can of SP122 is from 1971-1973 engines.
That Hirsch paint is correct from 66-70 but not correct for 71-72 as they list. Should be correct for yours.
Or so I've been informed.

Thanx, I read good things about the Hirsch paint.

So what about the heads: blue as well or chrome them...?

Heads? Or valve covers? Heads should be the same color as the block. Valve covers were painted on 326/350. Chrome on 400. I like the chrome but the aftermarket valve covers aren't th same as the originals. At least the ones I've seen.

Yeah, sorry, I mean valve covers. So they were the same metallic blue on a 326?