I am today the happy new owner of a '69 bird. I have a nice garage and lots of hope to find the time to put my hands on it. I leave in a tiny little country named Luxembourg in Europe. It's my first American classic car and I'd really love to receive your advice.
This is what I have in my hands: 1969 Pontiac Firebird Coupe The paint was Carousel Red with Parchment vinyl top. The trim color and material were Parchment Vinyl. This car has the Fisher Body Unit Number 501,679 built in the 4th week of September at the Van Nuys, California plant.
Now I'd like to figure out exactly the general mechanical specs and what there is really under the hood.In the last 50 years many little hands have certainly played around with the engine, the transmission and anything that turns ans spins...
I don't know if the engine works as it should or not; if carb, cams, transmission have been changed or modified. In any case I'd like to bring it back things as close as possible to original specs. And consumption makes me suspect that some little "wizards" plaid around with the engine. Currently 9 MPG at 50mph steady on the motorway. I know it can be thirsty, but I have the feeling that gasoline gets out straight away from the exhaust.
So my question is: which steps and in which order would you take them to make a good starting assessment of the mechanical general situation?
I would first send a pick of the cowl tag (firewall drivers side)
That is a start as to what it might be. Looks like a 350 engine Also there are stamped #s on the front passenger side of the engine block and stsmped #s near the distributor Get what you can of those
Probably need a carb rebuild check for leaks and correct timing
That is pretty terrible gas mileage. A well running stock 350 with a reasonable rear end gear should get much better gas mileage. So it’s either hot rodded to go fast or running really poorly.
And this site is a great reference point for figuring out all the codes on you engine, transmission and rear axle along with where to look for those codes:
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
Your other post about power steering suggests that your Firebird now has a Chevrolet engine in it? If that is true, then of course the Pontiac engine number information will be no good.
I do not have any sources for Chevy engine codes handy.
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
It would be interesting to learn how and why that car got from California to Luxembourg. I have trouble getting things from the USA to Pender Island BC, I can't imagine what it took to get that car to Luxembourg.
These cars were not known as gasoline misers but 9MPG? that's a bit much. I only got about 6MPG in my GTO but it had really steep rear gears. Do you know what RPM you were turning at 50 MPH?
Thanks a million guys for all these very helpful hints. Tomorrow it's Sunday and hopefully I will get time to inspect everything and make some conclusions.
That IS a nice looking bird! And that IS a Pontiac engine! You might also check the #s on your center exhaust ports, as your heads, after all these years may, or may not be original to your block. It would be interesting to see what you’ve got. Please take more pix of your power steering and alt set- up to make sure you have all the right brackets. Welcome!
Well, thanks again for all your comments! Allow me to answer back to some of your comments and tell you a bit about the car and myself.
When I decided to finally get a Firebird it was because I thought it was simply beautiful, and just as old as me.So after some years I found one, went for it, and flew up to Finland 2500 miles away north from Luxembourg... and drove it back down. And there it is, right in my garage.
Finally I lifted he hood and started looking inside this 50 year old purely mechanical gathering of turning and spinning parts. So, what did I have inside there and mainly what did I have in front of me? The understanding of it was not just obvious. Internet started answering my questions. Frame , parts mixed up with the ones of the camaro's, same or slightly different GM engines as in plenty of other car models and brands... and more confusing info to me.
Fantastic, just like a treasure hunt to figure out what I have, what is original, and what was swapped, changed or repaired in the last 50 years.
And obviously as expected I've posted you some of my noob wrong conclusions . Seems that I don't have a Chevy engine but a Pontiac engine... I thought the 350 where the same in both cars... I probably will still surprise you experts with some more "funny" conclusions :-)
More to know is that I got my hands on the history of the car since it came over to Europe. I was imported form US to Finland and had something like 17 owners before. Who knows what has really been done to it. The general state is excellent. Some body parts have been changed and globally it is 95% rust free. Many little details can be fixed with aftermarket parts. I already placed a big order on classicindustries.com to fix the aesthetics, inside end outside.
Concerning the engine I still don't know what have in my hands and how much it is running "wrongly". I have big troubles finding the engine numbers. Could they be simply not accessible? The only numbers I've found were some 4 digit numbers on the sides where the manifold connects to the engine. Are those indicating something? Consumption is over the acceptable limits. It has a leak at the back of the drive shaft and leaks a bit oil under the engine (not yet checked from where exactly). It came with a brand new carburetor, and 4 new shocks. I guess that the previous owner had already a guess on where the consumption issue came from... Finding parts and advice in Europe is very difficult so I must make sure I know what the issues are in order to order the right parts from the US.
My business is selling racing off-road bikes since 15 years and I have a well equipped workshop. I am not a great mechanic, but I know how to use my hands.
This is my introduction to you folks. I need and will appreciate extremely much your advice. Thanks for reading me and for your patience, since as I said I am a noob and my questions will probably make you often have a funny day :-)
The block casting number for late 67 and newer is facing the firewall below the passenger side head. On early 67 and before it is near the distributor. The block casting number will positively identify the year and displacement. Two letter code to the left of the timing cover. Go to teufert.net for block casting and two letter codes. You can put your phone down where the numbers are and take a pic
Reading the engine number looks is a bit challenging without taking off some elements, but I found next to the exhaust ports some numbers. Are these the already telling something about the block or some parts of it?
I think those are just internal casting numbers for the manufacturer of the block, perhaps representing foundry, production line, etc.
1968 400 Coupe, verdoro green, black vinyl top 1968 400 Convertible, verdoro green, black top 1971 Trans Am, cameo white, auto 1970 Buick Skylark Custom Convertible 350-4(driver)
Those are the date an shift codes of the heads. Arrow pointing to D or N is day or night shift. I108 would be Sept 10th 1968, I128 (9?) Sept 12 1968, or 69 I can't quite make out the number. 69 350 should have #47 or #48 cylinder head.numbers are cast into the center exhaust port.
Maybe a few pics of the block numbers will help you find them. One pic shows my block on an engine stand, you can see the 428 cast into the block between the center and the rear core plugs on driver's side, it is cast into the passenger side between the center and front plug just behind the dip stick tube. Yours should have 350 cast into the same locations if they used it in 69. hard to see when in car but a flashlight and a mirror will help.
In pics re assembly 10 and new build 105 you can sort of make out the position of the numbers near the distributor hole. Pics top end 25 and 26 are close ups of those numbers. The number 9792968 with the sideways P is the number just below and behind the passenger side cylinder head. The P is Pontiac division and the 97... is the block identification number. The number behind the oil passage plug shows the date of manufacture, November 30th 1968, the arrow pointing to N just behind the distributor hole shows it was made on the night shift. the 15 indicates it was shift 15, foreman's name was John Peterson, lead hand Bob Logan and they just finished lunch. Well, maybe not. I forget what the 15 is.
Pics re assembly 1 and Mad Mans 33 show the location of the engine number stamped into the block just below the passenger side cylinder head. These can be hard to see if the stamping was light and there are a few layers of paint and or crud.
