After a 3 year delay, the 400 is coming out for a rebuild this winter. Last two times I pulled it, I needed the transmission as well, so I just did an all in one grab and go. I'd prefer to leave the tranny in this time. Looking at the process, here's what I am thinking: 1. Hood off - Drain oil/water 2. Header disconnect from muffler 3. Drive shaft off 4. Remove bolts holding tranny in place on cross member 5. remove radiator/alternator/fan shroud/fan 6. Remove bolts from motor mounts 7. slide engine/tranny forward so I can get to bell housing bolts- remove bolts, slide tranny back 8. lift engine, remove headers. 9. Out we go.
Any thoughts on my steps here? I omitted obvious things like pulling air cleaner, ground straps, carb etc.
As always, thanks to all who take the time to respond! Drew
Last edited by Lit3; 10/18/1806:26 PM.
1957 Thunderbird 289 1967 Firebird Base 461 1968 C-20 327
Our Firebird's may be different, but I did a couple of engine-ectomys on my old '70 Mustang 351 and found that I did not have to 1) remove the driveshaft, 2) remove the tranny cross-member or 3) slide the tranny forward in order to just remove the block and not the tranny.
I found that the tranny would hang down far enough that I could get to the bellhousing bolts with a VERY long extension and a socket swivel U-joint.
Having said that, I consider mating the block back to the tranny WHILE installing the block in the car as a major PITA. So on my Firebird, I have always pulled both together. I consider that a "lesson learned" from the Mustang.
Last, but not least - be careful what you yank.
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
If you have a auto trans, what Salmons says is true, I also use the long extension to remove bolts. Also don't forget to unbolt the torque convertor from the Flex plate/engine so the TC can stay on the transmission.
I've had mine out three times. Pulled the transmission and engine as a unit. For some reason the last time was an ordeal getting it back in. Damaged the firewall paint, the rocker covers and the oil pan. Don't know why it went in twice without too much trouble then a whole day srtuggling the third time. If I ever have to do it again I think I'll just push the whole car off the dock into the chuck, or maybe try just the engine.
Not sure how I missed the original thread, thanks for pointing me in that direction.
I'm going with the conventional wisdom, and taking them both out. I'm ready for the big pull tomorrow. Then off to the builder on Monday. Thanks for all the replies! Drew
1957 Thunderbird 289 1967 Firebird Base 461 1968 C-20 327
Thought I would update this... 3.5 hours to get it out, I am getting good at this.. Engine went to the builder, and we are going to replace pretty much everything except the block. This engine was rebuilt once using some of the cheapest parts that can be found. They used generic fit all cast pistons and reused a lot of old parts that had wear on them. By not replacing all the stuff, it looks like it caused some of the issues I have been trying to figure out for 4 years. Most notably, the impressive LACK of power. The last drive my bird took was out of my garage, to the street, the backed into my garage. On the last start, I noticed it was knocking until it hit full idle. So, great time to get this rebuild done. For you Indiana guys, I have Scott Gunderman doing the rebuild. He has extensive Pontiac knowledge and about 40 years of experience.
We went through the parts that came out, and wow were they worn. I included the worst in this reply. If you have any other interest in pile of junk I have from the guts, let me know, I'll post more pictures.
1957 Thunderbird 289 1967 Firebird Base 461 1968 C-20 327
If your engine guy has extensive Pontiac knowledge, as you say, then you don't need to buy anything from Butler, unless you just wanna support them because they're the big name in Pontiac performance.
You can source your parts from the cheapest sources, to save some $$$. But, if price is no object, then you can let your engine guy source the parts, so he'll make the extra $$, instead of Butler. If he's makin more off the build, it might encourage him to do a better job. I'd venture a guess that some engine builders resent customers sourcing their parts somewhere else, beating them out of that profit.
Wherever you decide to buy the parts, I'd go with forged pistons. The cheapest are the Speed Pro L2262F, in the oversize you need. The cheapest price is almost always from an Ebay seller. Summit & Jegs will usually match a legitimate price you find.
Right now, $305.61 is the best price I can find for the L2262F30 pistons. But, I assume that Summit & Jegs will match that price, if you prefer to buy from them.
Don't know your budget, so I don't know how many upgrades you'd like. If you have more to spend, lighter pistons are a good investment, as are forged rods. I'd recommend Auto Tec pistons & H-beam rods. The pistons are a little over $500 & the rods are $400, from RPM. Some prefer Eagle rods. They're usually about $65 or so higher.
Besides being lighter, the Auto Tec pistons use thinner rings, and they have floating pins. Also a big plus is the fact that you can order them with any pin height you want. This will allow you to order the pin height you need in order to not require that any extra material be machined off the block decks, in order to achieve zero deck height. Any competent machine shop will square up the decks parallel to the crank. But, with most shelf pistons, more must be machined off, in order to achieve the desirable zero deck height.
Thank you for taking all the time to write and research all of this. I am a bit delinquent in my reply, as I have been a bit busy. Scott (builder) doesn't care if I source the parts, they just need to be right. My block is still in line so it will be a bit before it gets any major work. This was part of the deal when I brought it to him. I'm in no hurry, as long as I have it by spring.
I checked out a bunch of the butler stuff, and it looks pretty good. I'll post what I end up buying.
Again.. Thanks to all who took the time to reply, it is really appreciated.
1957 Thunderbird 289 1967 Firebird Base 461 1968 C-20 327
