I’ve read about others having this issue, but this is my first experience...
Engine gets hot, solenoid will not engage. Nothing. I was at Cruisin’n the Coast last couple of days and was stuck at a venue.Had to jack up and climb under to jump the solenoid(fortunately another cruiser was there with a jack stand for safety). Starter and solenoid are new.
What are the solutions?
I'm a hobbyist. Not a professional. Don't be hatin'!
Probably about as tough to come by but if your heat soaked and have access to a water hose it sometimes helps to squirt the starter and sol down to cool it down enough to get you going. I've done it before. Sometimes works.
The cure is a high torque starter, Pontiacs are known for hot start issues, Ames has a great one, if you're not a trailer queen or trophy whore looking for every concievable point a non stock starter won't matter.
There's actually a few things you can try before switching to a high torque starter, but try look into these things first: Make sure your battery is good and your starter is good! If both check out, get a heatshield that was made four our cars here : https://www.inlinetube.com/products...9IWX5QIVjSCtBh34UwyYEAQYASABEgJKcfD_BwE.
I also added a updated solenoid to mine and I have NEVER had another problem. Do a google search, I believe it had something to do with a different spring. Mine also was related to the starter brushes, so look into all of that.
Did you do any recent work on your starter circuit? A hot starter circuit increases resistance which leads to a hard/no start. I'd first check the connections to the solenoid. Are they tight? Next check the starter wire heat shield tube. Is it attached to the correct location on the back of the block? See the attached PDF. If it's attached to location "B", then it's right next to the exhaust manifold. Make sure it is attached to location "A". Finally, closely inspect your positive battery cable for any issues.
The starter and solenoid are new. I also replaced the wiring from the firewall to the solenoid. ... all routed through the heat shield tube...and further wrapped with heat sheathing. ... THEN wrapped the starter and solenoid in that insulating wrap...which I had to remove so I could jump the solenoid. When it was happening, the solenoid was actually hotter than the headers.
I’m thinking hard about the Ford type solenoid set up mentioned above...maybe install it where the external voltage regulator is/was.
This all started when I was changing my oil about a month back. The motor mounts had shrunk to the point where the the oil pan was about 1/64†from the cross member. I never had more than 1/4-3/8â€, so I replaced the mounts, and added 5/16†spacers made from steel plate.
As these projects usually go...had to adjust the fan shroud...had to remove my carb spacer...them reroute the PCV valve vacuum line rear of the intake... you all know how these things go. Additionally, I had to remove the starter to access the drivers side mount. I cracked the solenoid housing tightening connections...TWICE!... and broke a connecting stud once. So, I’m now pretty good at R&Ring the starter...LOL!
Never had this heat soak issue with the older starter...
Go ahead and and laugh. You gotta it yourself #ome slack in this hobby...
I'm a hobbyist. Not a professional. Don't be hatin'!
Since you stated you changed the starter and solenoid and then it started I can only come to one conclusion
cheap parts from China
the hot start issue seems to happen to Pontiacs after the starter assembly has some age
I have never regretted installing the hi-torque starter, it has a different solenoid with one wire jack and you can't destroy it like a GM type when removing or installing, most people can't see it, the stock starters have barely enough hp and torque to turn over a high compression motor, most of the hi-torque type have 5 times the stock starter
the Ford set up will stick out like a sore thumb unless you hide it
puttin' Ford parts on a Poncho is more sacrilege than a non stock starter
If you go the remote solenoid route please post your results. I've always been curious if it would take care of the problem. A lot of people swear by it. Cheap fix if it works.
If you go the remote solenoid route please post your results. I've always been curious if it would take care of the problem. A lot of people swear by it. Cheap fix if it works.
I have been doing this to GM cars since the 70's it works great
The starter and solenoid are new. I also replaced the wiring from the firewall to the solenoid. ... all routed through the heat shield tube...and further wrapped with heat sheathing. ... THEN wrapped the starter and solenoid in that insulating wrap...which I had to remove so I could jump the solenoid. When it was happening, the solenoid was actually hotter than the headers.
I’m thinking hard about the Ford type solenoid set up mentioned above...maybe install it where the external voltage regulator is/was.
This all started when I was changing my oil about a month back. The motor mounts had shrunk to the point where the the oil pan was about 1/64†from the cross member. I never had more than 1/4-3/8â€, so I replaced the mounts, and added 5/16†spacers made from steel plate.
As these projects usually go...had to adjust the fan shroud...had to remove my carb spacer...them reroute the PCV valve vacuum line rear of the intake... you all know how these things go. Additionally, I had to remove the starter to access the drivers side mount. I cracked the solenoid housing tightening connections...TWICE!... and broke a connecting stud once. So, I’m now pretty good at R&Ring the starter...LOL!
Never had this heat soak issue with the older starter...
Go ahead and and laugh. You gotta it yourself #ome slack in this hobby...
I have found , like you did that wraping the starter actually makes it hotter, it holds the heat in and makes the problem worse, you need air flow past the starter to help cool it.
Maybe the new starter solenoid takes more amperage to pull than the old starter did. When hot, the resistance in the start wire may be high enough that there's not enough juice to pull the solenoid and engage the starter motor.
There's countless old cars starting up just fine with the original wiring and starters, but once in a while one needs a little tweeking to help if perform.
An advantage of using a remote relay is, instead of a 12 gauge wire supplying power to the starter solenoid you have a thick cable. The cable isn't going to lose as much power when it gets hot as the thinner wire. You could install it where the regulator was to keep it a bit hidden but you will have to run the cable to the drivers side and then from there to the starter. Having the relay close to the battery results in only a short cable to the relay and the longer cable from the relay to the starter is electrically dead until the start switch is engaged. It also re-positions the R (yellow) wire from the starter to the coil.
As stated in the link posted above, the relay is also a good place to attach accessory wires and I've used mine to hook up a remote start switch as well. Mines on the passenger fender, (see pics), doesn't look stock to those that are concerned about that but looks OK to me, and powers the Hi-Torque starter well. Isn't a Ford part, it's a type of relay that Ford also uses. Mines an ACDelco.
I wish we could root cause this hot start issue once and for all. My '69 Bird still has it's original starter and solenoid and NEVER had a hot start problem before my doing a full restoration. After the restoration, I started having the hot start problem. When it first happened (after it cooled down) I crawled under to look at the starter. The positive battery cable was snug, but not really tight. That must be it, right? Nope. Tightened it up and still had the problem. Also noticed that the battery cable was really old. That must be it, right? Nope. Bought a new battery cable and still had the problem. Next I noticed that the starter wire tube shield was not bolted to the correct hole on the back of the block (see my earlier post above). It was bolted to a hole that is right next to the exhaust manifold. So I fixed that. While under the car I also carefully routed the battery cable to make sure it was properly routed and nowhere near the exhaust manifold. Since then, no issues. But I still worry a bit when I stop for gas.
for sheets and giggles try adding a shim to the starter, I'm beginning to wonder if somehow as the entire assembly heats there is some expansion that tightens up the starter gear to the flywheel when it engages causing lock up ...????
again look for made in USA parts, parts and especially electrical parts made in China and elsewhere have very poor quality out of the box
That's quite the thread Drucifer started. I would think his is the starter itself not the wiring to starter. The fact it turns over shows the solenoid is working and the cable from the battery is turning the motor. Weak battery, heat soaked or worn starter that gets worse when hot. Different problem than the one here. Interesting how the same problems with heat and starting keep coming up year after year. As far as the headers heating things up, mine get the engine compartment and the firewall so hot I can really feel it in the cabin. Some times I wish I had some 'stinking branches'. Just my opinion.