I recently purchased this 68 convertible restomod. The shop that built it did a pretty good job on most of it, but there are a few items I'm not real happy with. One of those items is the side window fit, specifically the front to quarter window fit. I'm looking for some advice on where to start and how to approach this.
I also assume there are certain structural differences on a convertible vs. a hardtop, which I don't have 100% confidence were done right. Is there anything in particular I should be looking for?
The most obvious convertible structural part is the floor reinforcement pan underneath. There are a few other sheet metal differences. You can compare those looking at the two diagrams at http://www.thefirstgensite.com/library/partscounter/illustrated/exter/metal.html Converts from the factory all had vibration dampeners (aka cocktail shakers) in each corner. Although not advertised as a structural reinforcement feature, they were added to reduce body vibrations. Over time, some owners have removed them to reduce weight.
Anybody have a picture of the convertible floor pan reinforcemt panel installed? The one on my car was missing, so I bought one but I can’t figure out where exactly it goes. There are two holes that line up with the holes in it, but nothing else lines up with the other four holes. I’m thinking the floor pans may have been replaced at some point and don’t have the holes.
I recently purchased this 68 convertible restomod. The shop that built it did a pretty good job on most of it, but there are a few items I'm not real happy with. One of those items is the side window fit, specifically the front to quarter window fit. I'm looking for some advice on where to start and how to approach this
Pull the front and rear trim panels and find the adjustment screws. Adjustments are available for up/down, foward/backward and tilt in/out. If the front windows are good to the A pillars, start with the quarter window and adjust them to fit. You may never get it perfect, it probably wasn't from the factory but you may get it close.
Yeah, there should be 6 threaded holes to mount the reinforcement x-brace. If those aren’t there you my be SOL. Not sure how critical that is. Mine was gone when I got the car but I added it back. Makes running the exhaust more difficult. I always wondered if that was something that was added to stiffen up the body in a crash.
Yeah, there should be 6 threaded holes to mount the reinforcement x-brace. If those aren’t there you my be SOL. Not sure how critical that is. Mine was gone when I got the car but I added it back. Makes running the exhaust more difficult. I always wondered if that was something that was added to stiffen up the body in a crash.
So it appears that when the floor pan was replaced, they did not install the rear set of floor supports, which is where the back 4 bolts of the cross brace bolt in. See pictures of my car vs. the picture of what it should look like.
Any thoughts on if/where those rear floor supports might be available?
I'm going to put subframe connectors on the car anyway. Do you think the subframe connectors with some cross-bracing between them would provide the necessary support. I'm not too excited about welding in the proper floor supports, even if I could find them, due to the fresh paint on the bottom of the car, but will do it if not having them is going to create a long term issue.
Here is a shopping list for you. I think these items are required for your vert. I installed them in mine.
Do your body panels fit properly? I wonder if your body is not positioned very well considering the the major brace was not attached the floor before other panels were welded.
I believe the only ones that are missing are the L-shaped floor braces and the x brace that bolts to them. The panel fit is decent. I would have liked to see better panel gaps if I were putting it together.
I believe the only ones that are missing are the L-shaped floor braces and the x brace that bolts to them. The panel fit is decent. I would have liked to see better panel gaps if I were putting it together.
That's what I was wondering (if your panel gaps are good or not). By not having the L shaped braces on did you pan get installed incorrectly. Perhaps a dip in the pan. You may want to measure your frame.
If you’re adding frame connectors, you may not need to go through all that trouble of welding in the cross brace mounts.
Personally, I think I’d pass on that project. Unless you plan on doing some serious pedal mashing with some really sticky rear tires...
I'm having the debate with myself whether it's worth installing them and repainting the bottom of the car. I've got the Hotchkiss subframe connectors and the L braces I ordered 3 weeks ago are still back-ordered. Just finished swapping a 416 LS stroker and 4L80e into the car and I want to drive it. Just don't want to destroy it, but I'm thinking the subframe connectors are providing way more support and rigidity than those L-brackets and x-brace ever would have.
If you’re adding frame connectors, you may not need to go through all that trouble of welding in the cross brace mounts.
Personally, I think I’d pass on that project. Unless you plan on doing some serious pedal mashing with some really sticky rear tires...
I'm having the debate with myself whether it's worth installing them and repainting the bottom of the car. I've got the Hotchkiss subframe connectors and the L braces I ordered 3 weeks ago are still back-ordered. Just finished swapping a 416 LS stroker and 4L80e into the car and I want to drive it. Just don't want to destroy it, but I'm thinking the subframe connectors are providing way more support and rigidity than those L-brackets and x-brace ever would have.
L braces are for body frame rigidity at rest.
Frame connectors are for reducing body torque as a result from racing the car down the street foot to the floor.
So your going out on a Sunday drive with 5 people in the car and trunk full of weight...do you want body braces or frame connectors?
I will put the frame connectors when the rear window smashes from the torque. Verts don't have the support the coupes have. You need the bracing. When you can't open the door anymore you know the pan is gone.
I got the L brackets welded in, repainted, and am starting on the sub-frame connectors. Before welding them in, I thought I should check the front sub-frame for squareness with the body. Based upon other issues I've had with the car, I assume the builder would have just bolted it on without squaring it. Measuring from the front alignment holes in the sub-frame to the rear holes in the body, I'm about 1/8" off on the front to back dimension from one side to the other. The diagonal measurement is about 3/8" different. I'm wondering how much difference is acceptable. I'm guessing these cars would not have been perfect off of the production line. I'm pretty happy with the hood to cowl and fender to hood fit. If I start moving he sub-frame around, I'm assuming it will cause issues with all the front end panel gaps.
Just looking for some advice from someone that's dealt with this before.
I got the L brackets welded in, repainted, and am starting on the sub-frame connectors. Before welding them in, I thought I should check the front sub-frame for squareness with the body. Based upon other issues I've had with the car, I assume the builder would have just bolted it on without squaring it. Measuring from the front alignment holes in the sub-frame to the rear holes in the body, I'm about 1/8" off on the front to back dimension from one side to the other. The diagonal measurement is about 3/8" different. I'm wondering how much difference is acceptable. I'm guessing these cars would not have been perfect off of the production line. I'm pretty happy with the hood to cowl and fender to hood fit. If I start moving he sub-frame around, I'm assuming it will cause issues with all the front end panel gaps.
Just looking for some advice from someone that's dealt with this before.
You should align the body based on the Fisher Body Specs.
So is it worth going through all of this on a car that already has all of the front sheet metal hung, if I'm satisfied with how the panels fit? What's the down-side to leaving as is, other than me knowing it's not right?
I'm just a little concerned about opening a can of worms by moving the sub-frame, and then having to start adjusting all of my front end panels and hoping I can get them to all line up again.
So is it worth going through all of this on a car that already has all of the front sheet metal hung, if I'm satisfied with how the panels fit? What's the down-side to leaving as is, other than me knowing it's not right?
I'm just a little concerned about opening a can of worms by moving the sub-frame, and then having to start adjusting all of my front end panels and hoping I can get them to all line up again.
You don't have to change anything in order to measure it. See how close you are. The nos. in the spreadsheet are mine. Get a plumb bob and find out how well your frame is aligned. I used the plumb bob to bring the measuring points down to the floor. Then you simply measure with a tape measure between points as illustrated in the drawing. Fillout the nos. on the spreadsheet and you can see how close you are. I cannot attach the xls file so send me your email address if you want it.
I did the whole process myself. Note: You have to have car positioned over your garage floor such that the height of the car is positioned precisely at the documented measurement points. That's why I use the plumb bob to extend the measurement points to the floor. Otherwise, you would need two people to measure up in the air from one point to the other. Very difficult to make it accurate when measuring just by tape measure point to point.
That's basically what I did to get the measurements above, except I used a laser to project the points onto the floor.
I think I've decided that I'm just going to bolt in the subframe connectors and add a couple of stitch welds that I can grind out later, so I can get it on the dyno, get it tuned, and enjoy it this summer. This winter I'll take off all the front panels, adjust the subframe and get all my panels on and aligned to my standards.
That's basically what I did to get the measurements above, except I used a laser to project the points onto the floor.
I think I've decided that I'm just going to bolt in the subframe connectors and add a couple of stitch welds that I can grind out later, so I can get it on the dyno, get it tuned, and enjoy it this summer. This winter I'll take off all the front panels, adjust the subframe and get all my panels on and aligned to my standards.
Did you get the measurements? I did not adjust anything, I just did the measurements. I felt my was close enough.
Yes, I got the measurements. My front to back dimensions are within 1/8". The diagonals are about 3/8" longer from one side to the other. It appears the subframe is shifted a bit towards the passenger side, relative to the body. At this point I'm going to leave it alone until I get some time to take all the front panels off and start from scratch with panel alignment. I'm afraid if I start moving the subframe around with the panels on, I will be mashing panels into on another.
Yes, I got the measurements. My front to back dimensions are within 1/8". The diagonals are about 3/8" longer from one side to the other. It appears the subframe is shifted a bit towards the passenger side, relative to the body. At this point I'm going to leave it alone until I get some time to take all the front panels off and start from scratch with panel alignment. I'm afraid if I start moving the subframe around with the panels on, I will be mashing panels into on another.
I agree. As long as the panel line up and the car does not drive side saddle you should be fine. Did see that link to the Eastwood tool? You can use it to save the exact location of your body panels so when you take off and put panels back on, you don't have to adjust them again.