I am restoring a 1968 Firebird convertible that my aunt purchased new. In restoring the car, Verdoro green paint was recently found in areas that could only have been painted at the factory. The body tag says it came with Q Verdoro green paint and the trim was 253 black interior with a black top, yet the PHS records I received based on the VIN shows it came with parchment interior and Alpine blue paint. And yet I scraped off some of the blue paint and there is green underneath!
I have only known it with blue paint and a white interior since I bought it from my aunt in 1976. How could this mismatch have happened? Does anyone have advice on which way to go - green paint/black interior or blue paint/parchment interior? I am also concerned that the money I am investing in the restoration won't result in a "matching" car.
Where is the discrepancy, in the trim tag or PHS? Obviously one is wrong. Is it the original motor and if so does the engine # match the PHS build sheet. Does the PHS build date match the trim tag build date. Where did your aunt buy the car and does that match the PHS shipping info? Do the options on the car match the phs or trim tag?
Last edited by 1badindn; 11/14/2106:07 AM.
1967 Firebird 400 Convertible Montreux Blue/Light Blue top/Black interior. Maybe one of one color combination, if not, one of very few.
The metal trim tag build date as 01C, third week of January 1968. The invoice date on the 1968 Car Billing History document is 10/31/1967.The document states that the color is D2 (Alpine blue with a black top) and trim is 62, parchment interior. This trim and color are the only color I have ever known, but the metal trim tag has paint as Q2 with trim 253 (black), and the car has green paint under the blue. The car was sold in Niagara Falls NY, and the zone and dealer code (zone 05, dealer 251) are correct. So, the answer to your question of "Do the options match the trim tag or PHS documents?" is yes, they match both. But which is more authentic or "correct"?
The things 1bad Indian mentioned are a good start But I myself would be checking the hidden vins. under the cowl cover and the blower motor cover to see if they match the tag on the dash. Also look closely at the rivets on the vin a cowl tags the vin uses a rosette style rivet while the cowl tag uses a round style with a big hole that is filled with seam sealer. The next step would be to contact the owner of phs as he has seen everything and would ask the appropriate questions to help you get to the bottom of this. Knowing the original owner and the history of the car is a big plus for you. I Heard of a GTO post car with an improper number showing it to be a non post car and and after discussing it with phs the owner discovered it was one of a few factory verified numbering mistakes so instead of it being modified car worth less it became a bragging point. I hope you figure it out, let us know.
Where did you find the Verdoro color? Did you only find it somewhere in the vicinity of the firewall? Can it be seen under the blue in multiple spots around the car?
The odd thing is the Verdoro trim tag is three months after the PHS record which has the top blue paint.
If the Verdoro you found is near the firewall, the question might be, could an event that damaged the firewall and adjacent painted parts justify the amount of body work to replace them? Did the body shop find a donor Verdoro '68 to repair your aunt's blue car? The car would really have to have been new to not be totaled. It's a wild hypothesis and if Verdoro is found in distant parts, can be rejected.
If the trans is original, there is a VIN also on it and I've heard there is another near the heater box.
The Verdoro green was found on the cowl after the front end had been removed. From what I have seen, these parts were painted before the front end was put on. Additionally, I scratched off blue paint on the interior rear seat wall and directly under the blue is green, and there is no primer layer between green and blue.. I am not aware of the car being in any accidents, both while my aunt owned it, and I never had an accident in it.
That is certainly a low body consecutive build number for a 01C car. Could a 10C have been mis-stamped 01C and the car also had order process flaws that sent it back into the paint shop to be corrected? (The old computer IBM card was punched so bad, everything was wrong on the orders when the Fisher Body Plant papers were spit out of the the mainframe.)
Note the CRG Fisher Body paint flaw correction process: "If a unit required a major paint repair that couldn't be accommodated in the normal in-line cycle time, it could be diverted off the main line at the end of the repair booth into a parallel loop that ran in the opposite direction and fed the unit back into the main line ahead of the main repair booth; the re-run loop could accommodate about 20 units. " http://camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml#fisherpaint
By the time the body entered the Pontiac side of Lordstown the orders were correct and the interior and all other parts they added were correct and attached to the now-blue car with a still-incorrect Fisher trim tag.
I checked the VIN number on the engine block and transmission, and both have matching numbers. Since the front clip is removed, getting a look at the VIN stamped in the cowl near the blower motor was easy. The numbers were upside down, but they were easy to read. However, they read 8U138444, and my VIN is 8U116567. The welds looked factory, and I believe the firewall had never been replaced.
Since the car was "originally" both green and blue, I am repainting the car blue since that is the color I have always known. More importantly, my wife hates the green and she said she might not want to go driving with me if the car is green.
Thank you to all who have offered opinions, advice and facts! They are all much appreciated.
I think blue is also the correct choice for as-built originality. That incorrect VIN on the cowl could fit with my second hypothesis. The car likely started through the Fisher plant to fill a different order. For whatever reason it was canceled, that perfectly good new body with the Verdoro, cowl VIN stamp, and body tag already mounted circled back to an earlier process of the Fisher Body line to fill a new order. They just didn't bother to restamp or retag the body. Once it hit the Pontiac side of the factory, it got equipped as your aunt's blue car.
Maybe you could contact PHS and just see if they even have a record for a 8U138444 VIN.
Your hypothesis could be correct, and that would be a great story!
Another statistic that I wondered about is that the distance between the VIN numbers (138444 and 116567) is about 120,000 units, which could be the number of vehicles GM built between late October 1967 and January 1968, assuming the VIN number were sequential throughout all GM plants. Is it possible that the VIN numbers on my car were changed at the factory, and that may be one of the reasons the car was originally green and then painted blue? This may be a stretch, but I am trying my best to understand what happened. I did reach out to PHS, and he is fairly insistent that the VIN was changed, though where and when wasn't specified.
Tom, I agree with Jim's idea of what probably happened during your cars build, that either the Green car order was canceled, or the body was damaged some how (happens more than people think!) and the green body was sent back, repaired, and rebuilt as your blue Firebird.
We probably will never know for sure, but it would be interesting to see if PHS has the VIN on record that you found on the firewall. It may clear up some things, but is it worth the $50+ to find out? Only you can decide that.
I would call Jim Madison at PHS and speak to him directly, he does like to do research and if you get him interested in your car, it may not cost you anything to see if they have the other VIN on file.
I agree I would have repainted the car Blue also. I think it is the "correct" color for your car.
