My bird let me down big style today! I feel like hitting the beer but I still have to go and get it.

It is working great, most of the time. But it has this annoying habit of not starting occasionally. It just won't turn over....No clicking solenoid no nothing turn the key the idiot lights come on but no starter....Leave it and try it an hour later and it might just fire right up. Or maybe not....Doesn't matter if you bang on the starter or boost it....nothing...Seems to only start when it wants to.

Today it started and I drove from the mall to the gas station, fuel her and then....Nothing! Felt like putting a for sale sign on it! When I went in to tell the cashier that I would be leaving it in her parking lot, the dude behind me said "wow nice car man!" I replied "yeah it makes a great lawn ornement!".....

Any tips before I set out to retrieve my broken bird?

Aaron

If it does not start only after it is hot, then get a solenoid heat shield or go modern and get a mini high-torque starter.

Also, trace your electrical; could be your igniton switch doesn't always make good contact.

Also, if it's a 69 check your neutral safety switch on your column. Failure of that switch will not allow the starter to move also.

Now, let's compare your VERY minor problem, to completely rebuilding my '69....

http://www.1969fb.com

also check the integrity of your battery cables. Corrosion inside the jackets can make hot and winter starts more difficult due to higher current draw.

Turn the headlights on while turning the key to start and see if they stay bright, go dim, or go out.

Any chance your car's equipped with headers? If so, the crammed engine bay and the non-existent space between starter solenoid and headers makes frying the starter components more or less inevitable. Changed back to stock manifolds this year, after having exactly these problems all of last summer, with tremendous improvement as a result - car has started every day without problems for three months now.

Also, shimming the starter properly might also improve things (besides the heat shield).

heat is a definite enemy. Dirty contacts is a close second. I've been in your shoes more times than I want to remember- sitting in some parking lot waiting for the thing to cool off.
Pontiac had a special part number for a HD solenoid for Firebirds, and there is also a factory heatshield. I think the HD setup was on all V8 Firebirds, but maybe it was just the 400s.
If you or someone else replaced the solenoid from a generic parts store, it will be the generic Pontiac solenoid, not the Firebird. And, most likely your heatshield got lost over the years.
After going through about 8 starters/solenoids over the years, I finally figured it out and got the correct factory starter and solenoid, and added an aftermarket "space shuttle tile" heatshield. Also getting rid of my headers helped!
I think Year One should have the solenoid and heat shields.
John
ps- also make sure your timing is not too advanced!

Thanks for the help guys (you too Vikki!) I am going to pick it up. If it starts no problem then as suggested it may be a heat thing....I will report back later....

Aaron

As tick off as I was with the car, when I stretched her out in third on the way home, once again that stupid grin appeared on my face.

How could I stay mad?

It seems to be a a heat issue as most on here suggested. The car fired up on the first turn of the key.

Now how do you correct this? Should I replace my starter? I don't have headers, but perhaps I should add a heat shield anyway.....Can anyone give a link to the "correct" starter or shield?

Thanks...

oh yeah, "cylinoid" is canadian for solenoid. I am not really illiterate, eh.....

hahaha

You defiantly need a heat shield (Ames sells them for $12.00 PN FN405), but I wouldn’t assume that is the problem and stop checking things out.
I would:
1. Check your ignition to make sure that the starter is getting the signal.
2. Check all you battery cables and other connections
3. Check your neutral safety switch
You could also install a switch in parallel with the regular ignition under the hood to start the car for insurance. If it acts up and won’t turn over you can try this switch, if it starts then you know it’s wiring related. If not, then its heat related.

sound advice from Joe- definitely check it out.
But I'd get the parts anyway, just for insurance. These birds' starters are always sensitive to heat.
Heres the YearOne link for a HD Cylinoid and heatshield.

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?cat=4

Willdog,

One last thing to check. My '67 did the same exact thing. I replaced my starter, assuming that was the problem, but it wasn't. I had a bad battery. If your battery is getting old, the soft lead material can branch out and short cells together and will drop your battery voltage down when a load is put on it. If you have access to another battery, give it a try.

Vince

I had a similar problem this spring where it would not crank and then bam it would start. It turned out that I had over-tightened the ign. terminal on the starter which must have broken the connection inside the starter. A new starter solved my problem.
Pete

My car would do exactly the same thing, every once and awhile you would turn the key, and nothing...I
replaced the the solenoid and it hasn't happened again.
HTH, Mike

My battery took a crap a couple months ago, same issue. But I knew the battery was on the way out so it was an easy fix.

1.) Check all wiring connections. Replace questionable components.

2.) What kind of shape is the engine wiring harness? I had a bad one in my '68, once I replaced it my starting problems dissappeared.

3.) Make sure timing is correct, this can make hot starts a problem.

4.) Put a heat shield on, along with a high temp selenoid.

Have starter & battery tested at local part store, most do this for free.

This should narrow down most of the usual suspects in this problem.

Steve

I replace the starter and the battery every twelve months, after living through your scenario the first year. Starter and battery are cheap annual replacements for a classic, and both give you back core dollars. I have headers and have put the heat shield in, I'm certain it prolonges the life of the starter.

But if you are a guy like me that only drives the bird 1-2 times a week, the annual battery/starter replacement is the way to go. Less than 100 bucks due to core return cash.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> But if you are a guy like me that only drives the bird 1-2 times a week, the annual battery/starter replacement is the way to go. Less than 100 bucks due to core return cash. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I may regret this statement (see below), but I have not replaced my starter (not sure how old..), and I bought a new Die Hard for my bird the first week I owned it...(bought 4 yrs and 1 mo ago), not had any problems ,and I drive it once ,twice a week...

(now it has not been started since aug 14th though , I just got back from 14 days in Europe, so if it doesnt start this saturday , I guess I know why! LOL)

Sounds like you may have a slight combination of problems. First thing I would do is check the Battery and the cables, then scrape the terminals on the battery and the connectors themselves. Then get a heat shield (can't hurt...)

Then, I would do the starter relay mod. I installed (A ford starter relay) and I've not had one problem in 4.5 years with headers, the same starter and the same battery. And this year, the poor bird has seen maybe 500 miles, and has been sitting the rest of the time.
http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml for a complete kit with instructions only $30!

That's what I would do in any case...

Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!

Brett,

That kit sound like the way to go....I will check into it. My battery is brand new and so is the cableing...I am almost certain it is a heat soak thing...

Aaron

If it is a heat issue, then this will fix the non-hot start problem. I mounted mine on the inner fender well just below the washer bottle.

(Last 4 images in the album!)

Maybe they will help visualize it?
[img]http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/412a0f55ze5e6d7d4/3ea4/__sr_/22ac.jpg?ph9V8FDByornmKlv[/img]

Hope it does the trick, and that is the problem!
Gotta keep that smile going at all times when it comes to your bird!!

Brett!