I know this is for parts only but just curious i saw a 1967 400 coded Bird with a 3HF body tag what is up with that? I thought 3H was a Sprint and 3F was a 400 .Anybody have a insight on this? Please let me know i am curious.

ACCORDING TO THE TRIM TAG ANALIZER THE CAR CAME WITH A 400 AND A 6 CYL MOTOR.A 14 CYLINDER FIREBIRD,THAT IS A RARE BIRD THERE....

Where do you find those numbers? My body tag does not have that, and neither does the tag from the parts car I had. They're both 69's.

Rocky,

It's a '67 only thing. I've seen two cars now with that code.

John

Jim, I'd like to see any factory or dealer literature or documentation that defines a '67 - '69 Firebird, Tempest, or Le Mans Sprint as anything other than an overhead cam 6, 4 bbl car.

Jim, what made yours a "Sprint"? Do you still have the body tag and vin codes?

I'm not doubting that's what the seller told you, and I know a lot of options did exist off the books. My dad custom ordered a '72 Charger SE and it had options that were not available in the combination he had, but he was a Chrysler engineer and had it done his way by working with the dealership to get what he wanted. I wish I had the window sticker and build sheet for that car!

If you still have the VIN number it would answer one big question in my mind.

If your car had a 350 2 bbl it was NOT a 350 H.O. That was a specific engine and drivetrain package. The stripes may have been added by the dealer before delivery. Likewise, the rocker panel Sprint badges were paired with 4.1L Overhead Cam hood badges on a flat hood on a Firebird Sprint.

Jim, I am not trying to tell you what your car was or was not, I am trying to learn more about decoding the tags and styles. The VIN will provide more information such as build plant and body style designation. I've been building decoding databases for 20+ years and NO ONE has a perfect database. The more information that is collected, the better the database.

Go to Geoff's '68 Dealer Album. You will see that according to the Pontiac-published dealer album, Sprints came with 250 cubic inch 4 bbl, flat hood with OHC emblems, and rocker panel emblems. Firebird 350 HO came with high output 350 4 bbl and HO stripe package (which could be deleted). If yours was different, the information would be very valuable.

I can't explain the '67 trim tags. I would certainly like to find out why the car has both designations, such as one of the two codes may be incorrect in the body tag decoders, or the three assembly plants used different codes for different options. The '67 on eBay does not have Sprint badges on the rockers, it does have a 400 hood, VIN matches a V8 car. I'd like to see a broadcast sheet on that one!

If that were the case, then how would HO cars be authenticated? There are specific block codes, camshafts, carburetors, standard and optional axle selections, standard and optional transmissions. If these are missing, no authentication could be made and just about anything could be tagged an HO and command top dollar.

Sprint cars are authenticated in the same manner. Block codes, heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, camshafts are unique. Same with Ram Air.

Shouldn't the option sheet indicate how one could order these cars? I can't speak for Jim's 68, but the option sheed for my '67 shows that the HO packaged was a 326 4v with stripes, the Sprint package was 230 I6, 4v and the 400 was a single package (no HO or Sprint option). The option sheet also shows that the HO rally stripe could be added to any car and deleted from the HO package.

Vikki: PM your email address to me and I'll send you a JPG of a 3HF code car and its VIN.

John

Jim, the previous owner of my Le Mans Sprint ordered a PHS packet for the car in 1999, as did I when I bought it in 2005. Some of the information is different on each copy. I'm sure it's human error, since the second copy has the correct info (matches the 36,000 mile unmolested car). As I said, no database is perfect, and retrieval is not always perfect either. In cases like this, PHS will always respond to inquiries and verify the data. And since you haven't shared your former car's VIN, I wouldn't be able to study it myself.

Yes, let PHS confirm it.

I thought so.

Not throw a wrench in the debate, but I do not think that the 3H code indicates the "Sprint" option.(OHC 6 w/4bbl, Rocker emblems, etc.)Contrary to this sites info. My 85,000 mile original "Sprint" convertible that was built the last week of March, does not have the 3H designation. In fact there is no 3 codes period. I have supporting PHS and dealer paperwork for it. I also have a "Sprint" hardtop parts car that was built the 2nd week of Feb and it too does not have a 3H or 3 series code.

Rob

Maybe it was a 400 block Bird but added the heavy duty Nodular 3:55 Sprint posi for the rear and they stamped it for both cases. Who knows?

Sprint package does not include a nodular posi rear by default, and if it was on a Sprint car, it was an option. HOs had it with a 3.55 or higher ratio. I agree, Rob, that H most likely means something else. It could be hood tach. It could be the Heavy Duty rear suspension (nodular), which is most likely. It could be just about anything. If we pool our billing histories and manifests, I'm sure we can come up with the right answer.

Well it is not the nodular rear axle, as my convert has one. (3.55 safe-t-track w/ both bars)(the parts car was changed by the previous owner) I do not believe that it could be a hood tach either as the vert has one and the hardtop did not.

Rob

Hi, don't know if I can help out any, but I have 67 firebird that has a v8 vin but has a 3h stamping. I was confused how I could have a v8 vin, but have the sprint code on my trim tag.I am 99% certain that trim tag is original.Trim tag matches original color of car and interior, I checked the hidden vin numbers to make sure the vin tag matched and it does. vin # 223377u1xxxxx trim tag is 434 05a
67 22437 lor 15520 body paint
tr254 z qq
2wg 3h
Thanks,Tyson

Thanks, Tyson, that's one more for the books. If you have a PHS, would you care to send the option codes off the dealer manifest or billing history? For example, 45 with a 3 over it would be 453, 74 with an H above would be 74H. If I can find three or four '67 cars with the 3H and billing histories, I should be able to determine what option makes the 3H, since it's not Sprint!

I junked my 67 Firebird convert Sprint, but I gave the guy down at the junkyard my protectoplate and he still has it. Will that tell me anything about Faqs code on it? Because thats where i pulled my 3:55 Nodular rearend out of, and I can get it back and give you the numbers off it if it is worth getting any body tag info off of it.

Oh yes, Protecto Plates are very helpful. Do you also have a PHS billing history?

Let me add my 2 cents worth in this debate. First of all I am not taking sides just adding my opinion. I have numerous original pamplets, red selling fact book, a original March 1967 Car & Driver and a March 1967 Motor Trend which both feature the 67 Firebird on the covers and is the main story.(These are original and in mint condition). I also have a GM original brochure titled "The Magnificent Five are here/the Pontiac Firebirds". Everyone of them indicates five models of Birds. Firebird with 230cu, Firebird Sprint 230 cu 4bbl, Firebird 326 with 2bbl, Firebird HO with 326 4bbl, Firebird 400.

Every decoding book or site that I have seen for 67 only does not have an "H" option for the 3rd group of letters. They all show only three choices for that group B=rear window deforst, F=400 option and J=custom option. Could you have mistaken the H on the one you saw as a worn out B? Here is one site the decodes 67's http://www.firebirdgallery.com/67codes.htm

Thanks for the link to that great site! It will be invaluable while matching the data plate codes to UPC codes to manifest codes. It's just a shame that so few of the options are listed on the body tags, compared to Mopars, where well optioned cars could have two plates since all the codes wouldn't fit on one!

It's not a case of mistaken identity when reading. The following photo is from the eBay ad:

It could be a case of an illiterate typesetter, a missing "B" in the box of letters, or some other human condition.

My goal is to compile all the reference material into one document, and post it as a reference for all FGFers. To do that, I'll need all the help I can get in providing year-specific information, and for double-checking my work. Any volunteers?

Well, that would definitely be classified as "human condition". That code should never appear, then, on cars built at other plants, and no pattern of installed options should appear after examining several 3H marked cars. Anyone else have a 3H?

After further research on this subject, I found in my 67-69 restoration guide that the letter "H" was one of the options for the third group of numbers for the sprint option. It is therefore possible to have both a 400 and sprint option on the same vehicle depending on if the buyer wanted the car that way. One could order the 400 motor using the sprint suspension or vise a versa. Who knows?

The "Sprint" suspension would have lighter front coil springs, a lesser drivetrain, and narrower tires. I see no advantage to the theory of "Sprint 400".

The only indication I have seen so far is on the 1969 Firebird order form, J50 power brakes, "N/A with 345-347-348". 347 is not separately enumerated as a powertrain option on the 1969 Firebird order form, but it IS listed on the 1969 Pontiac All Series Special Equipment Order sheet. Code 347, L67 Ram Air IV. FGF's own information states that for 1968, "Ram Air II production started May 20th 1968. The option code was still "347" however, the package price was increased. (sometimes found noted on the Billing History). " Interestingly, the "Ram Air" option is only mentioned once on the Firebird order sheet, code 611 "Hood Ram Air Inlet" optional on 348 only. 348 is the Firebird 400 H.O. The code 347 Ram Air package is not broken down by line item on the special order form.

As to whether the book (I'm guessing the Pete McCarthy book?) used the "addition" method to try to decipher powertrains, I can't answer that. It doesn't work with powertrains or transmissions as you cannot have more than one. Other options, like AM/FM stereo radio (388) with power antenna (381) may be shown as 389 (add the last digits 8 + 1), or may be listed separately as on my dealer invoice for my 'bird.

I was hoping the Firebird registry would make some of the code information public, but it appears that even after two years they've not gotten far enough to release it. I have roughed in the sheets for 67-69 and am populating them with the UPC and order codes directly off Pontiac order sheets. If anyone has an original, clearly legible copy of the '68 and '69 order sheets so that I can confirm the accuracy of my transcription of the microtype letters, please let me know!

Thank you, Tom. Books aren't always right, since someone had to write them! It's too easy to make a quick buck selling bad info to people who don't know better.

Would you happen to know what the 3H body tag code represents?

Jim, what would it take to convince you that the 3H code either refers to a previously undocumented stamping or to human error or to simple lack of a the correct letter in the die box, rather than to an option that is clearly self-contradicting?

Recycling/reprinting bad information does not make it any more correct.

I will contact Jim Mattison and publish his reply in full.

That rules out a lot of possibilities in regards to performance or appearance options, but there are a lot more still open.

Email sent to Jim Mattison as well.

No I don't have the PHS billing history sorry, but I will get you the info off the original Sprint convertible Protecto Plate for you.

Am I still allowed to collect 50 bucks from Nashville every time Tom uses a Gremlin?

Rob, would you mind sending your PHS info? Body code tag info plus window sticker or highlighted options from PHS packet?

No problem Vikki. Please PM your address and I will send them it out soon.

Rob

I'm willing to bet that the 3H is NOT the code for the Sprint package at all.

Like many things in reference material, it was probably written wrong once and since then it's been taken as correct.

I have a 1967 Firebird Sprint, with PHS, with no "3H" code on the trim tag. Lucky for me, there's no 3F code either. I'd hate to think I might have a counterfeit Sprint on my hands made from a garden variety 400.

I hate to tell you where I pulled this from. It's also an opinion, but it sounds like a valid one:

The complete original Fisher factory documentation for these codes is not in circulation - if it still exists at all. Nevertheless, a large number of the code meanings have been confirmed via a Fisher production form called the Uniform Option Identification Tag (UOIT) that was sometimes carelessly (but fortunately, for us) left in the car during build - often under the carpet or inside the headliner or in the springs of the lower rear seat. Those codes that have been confirmed via available UOITs are so noted - and the exact wording of the UOIT description is shown in monospace font. The remaining codes have been decoded via statistical analysis, and are therefore not known exactly, but by inference.

Those who have a 3HF code on your trim tag should pull the build sheet and look at what it says.

Q, that sounds like Camaro talk, LOL! They try like heck to document their cars as they have nothing like PHS to help.

Care to share your PHS installed options/body tag codes, too? Would you happen to have found a build sheet, or haven't you dismantled that pretty car yet?

WOOW, So Vicki lets say you right all your info in a book and someone reads it they should not believe it. I don't appreciate you insulting my intelligents when you don't even know me. Why don't you try going to the decipher code on this site under the 67 Firebird type the letters 3h in the third column and tell me what it says. I believe it will say Sprint option Firebird but I guess Geoff is wrong too.

I do not claim to have all the answers. I am willing to give honest effort to present what I find freely to all, to make your own determination as to whether or not it is accurate and complete.

Snottybulldogs, I do not recall insulting your intelligence by posting a photograph of a trim tag displaying a code from a car that you thought I may have misread as a B instead of H, and did not contradict you personally when you backpedalled and said that one reference book provided information diametrically opposed to the statement you made earlier. That indicates to me that more research is needed to determine the correct and accurate information, and from more than one source.

Locating a number of cars that do carry the 3H code, and very similar cars that do not carry the 3H code, and obtaining trim tag and build/option data from each, will help to determine what the 3H code means. I don't know, but would like to find out. I do know that it does not mean Sprint.

That's not what I said. I said that a Sprint Car cannot be a 350 2 bbl, and cannot be a 400, therefore IF a dataplate says 3H and IF 3H means Sprint and IF the car has a 400 engine, then either the engine is in the wrong body, or the tags have been changed. If you can prove that the tags and engine are both correct for the car, then 3H CANNOT mean Sprint. It will take more research to determine what it does mean.

My car has a lot of documented factory options that are not on the data plate. The plate wouldn't be big enough.

Vicki I got the protecto plate back on the What i believe is the 1967 Sprint Convertible ,but it only has the vin number on it ,don't believe it is good for anything else just a bunch of other numbers i don't understand.

Could you please send the numbers? Perhaps I can help sort them out. Just type them in as they appear.