Noticing that my clutch pedal now needs to be forced to the floor to get into first gear. 2,3 and 4 aren't as bad. Once engaged, theres no slipping or anything wierd. Adjustable rod is fully extended to maximum length. Shortening it just made it worse of course.
Also noticing that there is play in the clutch pedal, and the assembly rattles when not in gear at traffic lights. If I put my foot under the pedal and push up (back toward me) the slop and rattling stops.
What else is adjustable down there other than the one pivot rod?
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
Could it be related to the return spring that we were talking about. I would still like to see a pic of that? I don't exactly know where that bracket goes. Sorry for hijacking your thread.
When I replaced my clutch and press. plate I had to make a new adj. rod as the factory one was 2 short it took all of it to get the clutch near adjusted. I made one about 1" longer out of stainless steel rod at work it work's and looks sweet and should never rust.
Good morning Nash, First I'll say that a lot of free travel in the clutch (within reason) is good from a wear standpoint. When you run out of free travel and adjustment, your clutch disc is probably wearing thin. Is it safe to assume that the movement in the pedal is smooth, without any binding? Would this happen to be a fresh clutch job, or is this something that has been, or just did happen? If it is fresh, I may be able to talk with you about what happens in the bell housing and such. As for the pedal slop and rattle, I may not be as well versed, but I'm confident there would be some bushings in the pedal assy that would be prone to wear. There is also bound to be a return spring on the linkage for the pedal you may want to take a look at. I'll check back later, or you would be welcome to PM me.
There are no other adjustments other than the rod...Are you hearing a gear clash noise in 1st. and reverse gear?...It sounds to me like a worn out throwout bearing or pressure plate possibly due to improper clutch adjustment.
Oh yes, the throw-out bearing has been whining for a year at least. And Yes, it has gear grind when pushing it into reverse, but no other grinding in the four gears really.
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
Has the throwout bearing been noisy with the clutch engaged?(clutch pedal up)...If you're no longer able to adjust the clutch as indicated by gear clash in 1st. and/or reverse gear then I would think the throwout bearing and possibly the pressure plate are worn out or damaged due to inadequete clearance. The throwout bearing should not be rubbing up against the fingers on the pressure plate on clutch engagement.
John - check into a longer throw-out bearing. Of you replaced the diaphragm cluch with another style, the T/O bearing might be too short to allow you to reach full adjustment. And though you can make a new rod like Doug did - making it out of stainless is a trade-off since the strength of stainless steel is a lot lower than most other steels. Making it longer makes it more prone to buckling. To compensate for it, you'll have to make it quite a bit larger in diameter.
There should be two springs that would prevent the rattling at idle. There's a spring between the fork and the countershaft, and another between the countershaft and a bracket that bolts to the frame (#17).
Its all original 38-year old hardware, no aftermarket rebuild ever done on this car for the clutch. I need to do a major overhaul and get it right, thats for sure.
I'll admit the TO bearing has been whining for about a year, might not even be there any more at this point! I've bought parts and pieces for the past year but haven't jumped into this project yet. I need to, and want to get it done right and relatively fast.
Will take all the advice I can get from you all on rebuilding the clutch and related parts.
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
From what I have heard, it's probabally the t/o bearing. The reason you don't get any grinding as you go through the remaing gears is that the syncronizers allow the gears to mesh smoothly. In fact, once you get in gear, you can probabally go up and down through the gears without grind without using the clutch when you shift.
I see a lot of folks replace their 350 with a 400. The pressure plate (PP) and TO bearing are different for these two motors. Often the flywheel and PP are not changed. No big deal, they fit fine. The same is true for a 400 2-bbl. If you had a 350 motor or a 400 2-bbl, you probably have a 10.4" PP with flat fingers. The TO bearing has to match the PP.
More than likely you should order the PP and TO bearing based on the motor you originally had. And flat fingers use tall TO bearing while bent fingers use shallow TO bearing.
You're getting some GRRREAT help here Nash. I received and replied to the PM. As PMI stated a longer release bearing MAY be what would seem to make it work, but resist temptation. bubinga mentioned the bearing has to match the pressure plate. I spoke of that in the PM. That IS absolutely important.
The GTO set up (which I am more familiar with) has two. After looking more closely at the diagram, I see that there is a "spring extension" (item 11) in the place where the GTO has a second spring. My mistake. Sorry.
Q, I think you mentioned a while back a company that sold "kits" for our birds for the clutch components. If so, can you refresh my memory? I'd feel more comfortable ordering all I'll need from one place instead of multiple sources.
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
Folks - check this out from Eclutchmaster today. The car originally had the 350 HO:
------------------------------------------------- Hello, Thank you for choosing eClutchmaster as your clutch kit provider and inquiry. Yes, we do have complete OEM clutch setup for your application (1968 Pontiac Firebird with original 5.7L 350" motor and 4 speed stock transmission in stock, PART# EC-82118. Price is $156.65 for a complete clutch setup contains pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing, pilot bushing and alignment tool. Email back to us for further assistance or wish to place an order.
Nash, me again I've racked my brain for the part number, but I was able to call a clutch supplier: Dial a clutch, (877)225-8824 and talked with Tom in tech support. He validated the 11" clutch, based on a 10.4" type bolt circle on the flywheel. It is actually a dodge cover and is available in the crowned diaphram or 3 lever borg & beck style. Once you get yours out and tell them what you are after they are one of the many that can help. I'm sure the clutchmaster guys can do it too. That's if your interested. If the O.E. clutch lasted that long under your big old feet you're probably ok with that. If you wanted to call and talk about it you can most always reach me from 7-5 central time at (417)881-0291.
After 38 years of use, I'm sure your flywheel will need a shave!...By the way, if you want a long lasting, hi performance clutch assembly, try Hays, a little tough on the left leg but I can guarantee tire chirps in ALL gears!...Very tight launching!
Nash, something else. Make sure when you replace it that you buy a new one. I went through a few rebuilts back in the lean years and they all chattered after a very short time. Finally bought a brand new setup of a good brand and haven't had a problem for years now. You get what you pay for it seems.
Greg, Ken, Bob, Q and other friends here! I can see right now that I am going to completely rebuild this part of the car with no problems, thanks to you all. I've been reading up on it for a week now, and have gotten a bit smarter on the functions than before. Of course, this knowledge and your comments just makes me a bit more dangerous now.
Should have done this a year ago when she first started to exhibit minor quirks.
I have plenty of questions, so get ready for Q&A time!
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
Although stainless steel may be not as strong as steel mine worked just fine all last year and really they work on a straight push there's no reason for them to bend.
Oh yea about that grinding when you put it into reverse. The guy who I nought my muncie rebuilt kit from told me that you should wait about 30 sec. if I remember right when going from any gear to reverse. You have to wait for the reverse gear to stop spining or something like that.
![[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]](https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ss328/alvey_john/john-alvey-1968-Firebird-oct2012-2.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.1968firebird.org/illustrated/clutch/clutch2.jpg)
