I have recently found the FirstGenFirebird website and man is it a great mound of information for all of us Firebird lovers. I grew up with friends and family who had hot rods but way back then I did not get into building engines or cars.(I was into sports) When I was 15 years old I bought my first car with the money I had saved over the summer for cutting yards. And my first car was a 1969 Firebird, 4 speed. To make a long story short I still have my Firebird after 25 years. I drove it though high school and college but soon after college I parked it and bought me another car. Since then, my Bird has been sitting for the past 13 years. My plan was to get my Bird going after my father retired. My father was a huge car person and had many Muscle cars way back in the day. But I thought after my father retired, we would have more time to spend together and more time in general to do the father/son thing. Several years went by and my father got sick. It has now been 2 years since my father has passed away and my family has tried many times to convince me to "get rid" of my Bird. There was even a situation with codes having a problem with my "non-running car." About 8 months ago I cought the bug-the bug of getting my Bird flying once again. My car needs engine work and body work to remove rust. Like I said earlier I am more of a sports person and not a gearhead like most of you guys in here. I know a little about cars but I want to learn more. I have been reading, watching tv shows, going to car shows and crusins to talk to everyone and learn. I have found an engine guy who I can trust to help me out with my engine to see if it is saveable. I guess my question is where do I start? The rust on the car concerns me the most. It will need new panels or patch panels? So is it best to cut the rust out and add patch panels or to install a new full size panel? I am not sure if I want to do a body off restoration or a body on half restoration. The car needs to be sand blasted or chemically diped to see how far the rust goes. What is good advice on sand blasting? I heard if it is not done correctly the medal on the car could become warped. I am in Tennessee-does anyone know of a good, honest person or company to deal with? I have talked to a few restoration companies here but would like to look at more. I have many questions but I will stop now to see what kind of advice I receive before I go any further. Sorry for the long story. Thank you for your time and any information that could help me get my Bird flying again is very appriciated. Ronfox@newhorizonscorp.com

Welcome Ron! You are very lucky to still have that piece of your past.
There are so many ways you could go. What I would do, what I do with all of the cars that I get lucky enough to own, is start project "Save What I Have Left". I would get it up on blocks and study it, one end to the other, underneath. Either take some oil, grease or rustoleum and treat the edges where the rust is eating away. That way, if you get real busy and can't touch it again for years, it will be there for you, waiting.
Good Luck!

Welcome Ron. What I would suggest is going through the car and make a list of all the major and minor things you will need to do in order to get it into a safe running (and stopping) condition.

The reason I suggest getting it running and driving is it will keep you motivated, and enthused about the project and you will more than likely take it further than you thought you could. If you get it running and driving, you can enjoy it while you work on it. There are many stages you can do, and still keep it on the road and enjoy driving it while you do much of the work.

If you were to just tear into it, pull it all apart, it would be much easier to become overwhelmed, and loose sight of the end goal... thus you might give in to others suggestions of abandoning the project... and we don't want to see that happen!

Take little steps... get the drive train evaluated and see if you can actually get it running as is, or if a rebuild is in order right away. Then the tranny, the brakes, the suspension and electrical... (while the motor is being built you could double check all the electrical, and the brakes... multi-task so to speak)

So get her rolled out into the open, give her a GOOD cleaning inside and out... and that will give you the motivation to get going on her...

I wish you luck, and if your wavering, just check in with us and we'll help keep you motivated!

Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!

Sounds like you could benefit from some research into what's involved in restoring a car. I am going to include some of my favorite web based car restoration sites below and you can sift throught them. You can then compare what shape your car is in to the ones on these sites and have an idea on what's involved.

Muscle Car Restorations

Tom Yang\'s Ferrari Site

Sandy\'s Garage

1969 Camaro Z-28 Site

Mustang Restoration

2nd, I recommend collecting a "library" for your car. Send away and get copies of your car's original documentation from the Pontiac Historical Society, get all the factory Service Manuals from parts houses, get a Chilton's or other repair manuals and the 1969 Firebird Factory Assembly Manual which I now see is available from Classical Industries. Hopefully it is more legible than the one available from E-bay.

Last, I can feel some of your pain. My father was my inspiration for tinkering with cars. I started helping him do routine maintenance, enrolled in Auto Shop in high school and then had him helping me out doing stuff that he would not have tried himself.

I found a Trans Am in 1994 and started my 1st whole restoration. Unfortuately my father suddenly died in 1997 due to complications from minor surgery and he never got to see my car completed. I strongly believe he is up there smiling about the things I have accomplished.

Welcome Ron.
I agree with Brett. Get the car in running/stoping condition first. This way you can enjoy it while you fix it. Many of the people on this board have "rolling restos" that have been in progress for years, decades, etc...
Mine is only going on 2 years so Im ok
First stop IMHO is to learn what you can about your car or cars in general. If you want to get your car back up and running you will have to learn quite a bit first to be able to properly ID what is right vs wrong. If you have basic automotive know how you can get going right now. If not, find a buddy that does and feed him food/beer for payment
Make a list of what the car has, doesnt have, needs, is broke, wrong, ETC>...
Here is a list of things that I came up with a while ago. If you can answer all these questions you will be in good shape and will know what you have in front of you.
/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000005#000000

After that, well, I would say you take care of all the mechanical items before you try and make her look good. Looking good is nice, but you can die or kill others if you neglect the mechanical issues.

This is by far the best place for FGF info, so feel free to ask

Good luck

Thanks for the response Fbody69, 1stgenbirdman, Salmon38, and 68 BLKBRD. (I agree with you 1stgenbirdman)- I would like to drive my car while I add parts to it. My main concern is the rust which needs to be repaired. Any advice about how to get rid of the rust? What is everyones opinion about Media blasting? Which is the best recommended: Sand, bead, walnut shells or the use of chemicals. I am sure each has its negative side but the rust needs to be delt with and aliminated. Does the frame have to be removed from the car? Does everything have to be removed from the car: engine, interior, glass, etc.?

Sorry to hear about your father Salmon38. I was looking forward to my father helping me.

Thanks everyone for the information and please keep the info coming this way. Ronfox@newhorizonscorp.com

Ron

Ron,

Welcome to the site - there are a lot of good people here willing to help.

I've tried virtually every rust stripping method and firmly believe that plain old brown sand in the hands of a capable person is the best option. Acid dipping is too messy and leaves many parts exposed that you will not be able to effectively recoat unless you pay really big bucks and have the car e-coated following stripping. Walnut shells and plastic media will strip paint, but not do a very good job on rust and are extraordinarily expensive if you can find someone to do it. Bead blasting is more for soft metals or surfaces where you want a satin finish. I bead blasted many parts in preparation for plating, but for painting more a more aggressive surface texture is a plus. Brown sand is relatively cheap, breaks down easily (not too agressive) and will do great at removing rust. It's the pressure, not heat, that warps metal (imagine thousands of tiny ball peen hammers). I've sand blasted many sheet metal parts with absolutely no damage, but it just takes a few minutes to destroy a hood or quarter if someone doesn't know what they're doing or doesn't turn down the pressure. To that point, it's nearly impossible to damage anything with a siphon feed blaster because the pressure is so low. If you were to do this yourself, you could buy a $50 blaster and have at it.

Anything more aggressive than brown sand should not be used except on very durable parts like the frame, rear end, suspension parts, etc...

The only method I can't comment on is soda blasting. The soda breaks down ultra fast (it cannot be reused even once) but is inexpensive and because it breaks down so fast, it is not as agressive as sand.

Ron,
I drove my '68 to school as well. Took it to my 20 year class reunion and parked it the same spot. My 30 comes up next year and guess what I'll be driving. There was a time I had to let mine sit for a while, and people started saying "if you're not going to fix that up, sell it to me." Needless to say, I got'r'done.
I didn't come across this site untill a few months ago and have been avid with it since. You've gotten good advise so far. Like
the others, I say get the mechanics sound before you do the beautifying part. Not only is it a matter of safety for ALL, but you wouldn't want to scratch up something in the process of repairing something else. Like Jim says, if there is some rust to address, you don't want to let it get much farther ahead of you.

FYI, the shop I use for plastic bead blasting charges $600 to do a whole Firebird bare body...a fraction more if you separate the front clip, doors and subframe for complete coverage. $20 for an intake, $75 for a hood (partial only, can't do the flats from the underside). So shop around.

The finish is roughed up enough for excellent adhesion, yet non-destructive enough to protect the threads in manifold bolt holes, and casting mold marks.

13 years of storage is enough that you don't want to try to drive without new front end components or wheel bearings, new brake pads, new master cylinder or rebuild yours, wheel cylinders if drum brake or calipers if disc. Coolant, battery, fuel and oil and filter are also necessities. Replace all rubber lines and hoses. Check the wiring harness for rodent alterations, then try to fire it up. No go? Fill the carb with 1/4 cup of gas through the vent tube in the top of the air horn. A shot or two of starting fluid may be enough to get the engine started before freshening up the carb.

If the car was stored outdoors, you may have to add a few things to your list. Brake lines and fuel lines, battery cables and wiring harnesses all deteriorate quickly in outdoor storage.

Thanks Vikkie, Greg, and Hammered.

Was your 68 your first car Greg? My 69 is part of my family.

In the future I would like to get my car media blasted but with people liking different medias it's difficult to deceid on which one to go with. I have found several media businesses here but I have not visted or done any homework on them. I guess the question is can I trust the person doing the blasting as well as which media.

Next week I should have my 69 on her way to my engine guy. I look forward to that day.

Please keep the information coming even if I do not ask for it.

Thank you everyone for helping this non-gearhead out.

Ron Ronfox@newhorizonscorp.com

Yes Ron,
As a matter of fact my '68 is my first car. It was in April 1975 when I first drove it. Even though it is not like it was then, like yourself, it is a part of the family. I've made many modifications along the way. In fact I really can't think of anything I haven't dinked with over the years. Although it has been dinked with, it (and I AM biased) is solid and runs & drives out very well. It is dependable and as fast as I need it to be. In fact I have always considered it to be a top-notch 'bird. Still do, but some of the cars I've feasted my eyes on since getting on this site are IMO absolutely stunning. I'm truely glad I crossed paths with the site, and I know you will be too!

Nice Bird Greg. I like the color. Mine is gold inside and out.

Thanks,
I really appreciate that. The color is not stock, but it is a GM color...Bright Red.
What we want is to see yours...Gold inside and out? I got this friend that has a gold one that was some sort of a promotional car to begin with.
What else might you know about the history of yours? If you haven't yet, you may want to run it through Pontiac Historical Services to get better insight.

Today I would never buy a gold car but for some reason the color gold looks great on my 69. And gold for the interior looks nice as well. There are two very small black pin strip down the side of ther car.

Somewhere at home I have pictures but they are at least 20 years old. Let me see if I can find them. I did take pictures when I had my car moved which was about 10 months ago but I the role of film has not been developed yet.

Hello everyone. It has been awhile since I have posted any questions. I have finally found someone to restore my car. I am going with the off the frame restoration. I figured if I am going to put money into the car and I plan on keeping the car I might else well do it right and redue the entire car. I have had my 69 for over 25 years and hopefully I am still alive the next 25 years to enjoy my car. It took awhile but I finally found someone who I can trust to restore my car. He, Mike, is even letting me work on my car. (tear down, blasting small parts, polishing trim, etc.) I am not a 100% gearhead like most in here but I have learned alot do the small work I can do.

I have received much help and information from Yellowbird through personal email(and I thank her very much for her time and patience). She has answered all my questions about which way I need or should go with my car. Either stock or a few upgrades. I would like to hear from everyone on what was done to your car...stock...upgrades to what extent. I would like to upgrade the engine (heads, carb, intake, headers, etc. without effecting my numbers matching car in the future if I should want to put it back together in the future.) I want to upgrade my brakes and suspension.

Has anyone in here upgraded to a full blown after market suspension with new upper and lower control arms, etc?

It feels good to finally get going on this project eventhough I am not completing all or half the work myself.

Everyones input would be appreciated.

Thanks
Ron
1969, 350, 4-speed
Ronfox@newhorizonscorp.com

If I had to do it all over again I would get the Hotchkis TVS system and do the Guldstrand Modification. Best bang for the buck in my opinion.

Ron,

Have you run the PHS docs? anything special about the car? You mentioned small stripes down the side of the car, is it an HO?

Post some pics so we can see the progress.

The direction you take with your car is yours to figure out. Which way are you going, stock, modified, custom, etc?

That's what drives what to do with it.

I personally like stock, especially if it's numbers matching. There are many ways to get some power and performance above what came from the factory and still have it look factory. Since you are going with a frame off, that will solve a lot of potential issues anyway (body bushings, suspension rubber, metal lines, rubber lines, new shocks, tires). Use the FAQ and search tools here. There is a plethera of information.

Good Luck. keep us posted

Watch out on those full resto's by others...keep an eye on the time they spend if on hourly and how they do the work if fixed price.

I had my body welding/work done on hourly, and spend a fortune before I finally put the brakes on (the shop that is).

I finished the rest of the car from there myself and thorougly enjoyed it, especially with the help of the good folks on this site.

I agree with White rock.

You may want to try to get some firm numbers for specific work. Just as mentioned in the recent "interior work" thread, some shops see people with classic cars as an easy mark. Trust in your shop is good thing, but "easy" money changes some people (especially on T&M). I don't have experience in the restoration business as a client. But my experience with subcontractors in industrial construction on T&M is more bad than good.

i would like to contribute a bit to this. if you have rust you should let us know which panels need replaced. i personally have a car that is missing the complete rear half of the car. 1/4, trunk, wheelhouses and frame rails now. ive cut it apart from a complete car to restore it. started as a daily driver to go project now turned into a full on resto project! givin more info we could help you out a BIT more!

I will probably go with the Hotchkis TVS system but also looking at other systers. What is the Guldstrand Modification, rohrt? Do you have upgraded upper and lower control arms?

Robert, no I have not gotten the PHS documents yet but I will send off for them soon. My car is not an HO. It is a matching numbers,350 coupe, 4-speed with factory air and 265 HP. I think I will stay as close to stock a possible but with a few upgrads.

Dave, it took me awhile to find the the right person to help me restore my car. I had visited and drilled 10 to 12 restoration companies and individuals before I found Mike. Mike works out of his house. He has a very large work garage that has different areas to restore a car. I got 8 references and can get more if needed. I feel comfortable with Mike and with his experience with cars. I think the only think I did not do was a background check on Mike...just kidding. I am very picky and detailed when it comes cars and I have found that in Mike. But I do and will always have my guard up concerning my car. When I figure out how to post pictures I will do so.

Drew, my resto guy thinks my car is a 36,000 mile original car. (that is the milage on my car at the moment) I thought it was a 136,000 but he says it is 36,000. The car has rust in the normal places (around the back finders, front finders, back window, around the hood, etc. Part of the trunk with need to be replaced. The drivers floor plan has two or so very small holes and a few pin holes.

At the moment my car it up on stands. The only parts left on the car are engine/subframe, doors/glass, rearend, dash/steering and some trim. I cant wait to media blast the car to see what rust damage there is hiding underneath the paint. I want to stay away from whole replacement panels and do the patch panels to keep as much original metal on the car as possible.

Thanks for everyones input and please keep it coming.

Ron
1969 Coupe, 4-speed
Ronfox@newhorizonscorp.com

sounds like your car is still intact! when you get it down to a bare shell let us know. also bag and tag everything as you go. this way you will keep everything in its proper location when re-assmbling the car and there wont be too much confusion while doing it.

Yes it is drew67. I am courious to see what is under the paint. It has been so long ago but the car had the original paint when I bought it. A few years after I bought the car my father had it repainted. But the paint soon turned into rust in the normal areas...the guys that painted the car back then just through it on the car.

Any advice you can give me about my car...

Thank you for your time.

Ron
1969 Coupe, 4-speed