Thanks, Geoff and moderators, for dropping my interest in FGF. It was once fun, like hanging out in a virtual garage with friends, but the fun is gone.

Now I will have more free time for work and play.

Welcome... This board needed more hands on moderation or I would be pulling the plug as it has become more of a pain than fun for me. Every day, I have 1 - 5 moderation messages asking me to review a post as someone has used the board for personal ax grinding. I deal with this 12 hours a day at work and do not need it when I get home. This was even after I had asked for help in not responding to posts and involved senior members.

I do not mean to offend but need to take control. Some people are always offended no matter how a situation is handled. As long it is fair and consistent, I can sleep at night.

You need to understand where I come from but I do not expect total acceptance. Overall, this is my garage and when I return to it from vacation or long week at work, I expect everyone to play nice. The fun will continue with bumps along the way and a few lost virtual friends.

Why did you kill all the "Ramblings and Chatter"? Everything from Bjorn's Glogg recipe to many user contacts could be found there.

Most of the senior members invest a lot of time and effort into sharing information, photographs, and personal experiences. Although I am at the "rookie" end of the contributing members, I had amassed and shared a lot of data over the years, and likewise asked for and received a lot of help. Being able to log in and share was a good thing, but the social aspect of the site, with casual banter between friends, made it something special. Sure, once in a while the topics were off the wall, and once in a while tempers would flare, but we managed to discuss it and deal with it. With "moderation" involved, snipping and chopping threads, the issue is never fully out in the open and may never be resolved. The lack of, and the acknowledgement of the lack of "political correctness" in this site was very appealing.

Nothing against the moderators, you must do what you feel is right, but I don't agree with heavy handed editing. As I write this, I am wondering if this reply will also be edited for content.

Enjoy your Firebirds...

Since it was a new year, I wanted a clean slate. Right or wrong, I choose today as date for everything in this section (Ramblings/Chatter) and a couple others to start over. The other sections with time sensitive topics (For Sale/Wanted/Shows) I choose October 30, 2005 (60 days) and before as prune dates.

Some sections I do not touch (Tech Help/Company Info) as the information is always (usually) current and can be used to help on someone's project today or in future.

One mistake I made and not sure why is all posts in the Show section are gone which I assume were all made before October 30th but think some people put information for next year shows (Western Washington?).

I try to never offend people but realize I will when I make decisions. It is never my intent to offend but comes with the territory at times.

Any possibility of a committee edit on the Ramblings file?

I understand what you're doing, Geoff, and have also been somewhat put off lately. It hasn't been the fun place to be of late with the unneeded rhetoric flying around, so reminding everyone that good manners are still the social glue that allows a site like yours to work as well as it does is required occassionally. Just unfortunate that all the info was removed (and the penguin and moose games!). I'll miss all that!

Thank you not pulling the plug completely! And once again, thank you for the best site on the web. I applaud you for maintaining high standards!

Thanks again Geoff for having such a wonderful site. It has helped me in the past with my car and will in the future. Keep up the good work for all of us and thanks to all the people on here who are willing to help with info and parts, you guys are great.

Sorry, I wasn't around the last couple of days and thought things would have been ok... but I guess not? Sorry about that... I'll try to be more proactive in the future.

Perhaps, out of sight out of mind will work for some of the posts... so maybe this "Will" be a fresh start? So I hope this won't sway anyone from participating, but I hope instead it will be a valuable lesson we all can learn from?

Thanks - Brett!

Its hard to even know what to write about this? All I know is that it appears that a couple bad apples are starting to spoil the bunch and its a really sad thing.
I have been on this site for almost a year now and we have never had a major problem until recently. Just kick those who are causing the problem off and lets get back to the fun of FGF's.
I dont know what I would do without all the people on this site. My enjoyment of my car has been tripled because of people like Vikki.
We cannot afford to loose someone like her.
Lets just fix the problem and move on.

I'd like to know how many visitors there are to this site daily or monthly?
This site is 99%+ good stuff with only a few stray comments here and there.
To all the moderators - PLEASE DON'T TRY TO FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN!
I'm probably a part of the silent majority who visit this site daily and search it often (and post seldom - since I do not have much information to share).
I'll bet there are hundreds of frequent visitors to this site who find it helpful and would like to see the all archives (ramblings) remain intact.
Also, I'd weight comments from major contributors, like Vikki (2600+ posts) and many other others, a little different that some newbies who just want to stir the pot.
Two suggestions:
1. disconnect the offenders who blatantly violate the user agreement without warning.
2. don't be so darn sensitive.
Dave

p.s. I need this site for at least a couple more years - I'm a long way from finishing my project!!!!!

Does this mean that I can't post anymore purse question's ?

For all of FGF, about 2500 unique visitors a day with about 5,000 page views. Spikes at times but this has been the average for 2005. Most popular areas are the Online Show and the Classifieds.

EDIT - Should have been daily stats for above numbers and not weekly.

For the most part, this board has run SMOOTHLY for 6 and a half years..Until recently and a few posters/members who should have been monitored and dealt with appropriately.

Terry (69Firebirdman) and I had a falling out 2 years ago..on this site..and we worked it out with unmoderated intervention..we worked through it and have phone conversations.

This board, I thought was a free community with implied commentary which for the most part was either accepted as fun, or passed off by many others as "this is how they are". Now the few who offended are complaining and now a "Pandoras Box" has been opened limiting the flow and commonality this board had.

And lets ALL be honest with ourselves and come to terms. WHEN did all this restriction and intervention start? 4 months ago, with 3 offenders. Until then, this board flowed like a tranqiuil stream and so forth we all self moderated...And it was fun.

Having posts edited, removed, deleted...and so forth for reasons stemming from 3-4 offenders commenting on topics just to get a "thrill and goat" and punishing others is not what we, collectively achieved over the past 6 years.

I will always make a stand for whatever I know to be disrespectful to myself or others...We are all adults and as the beginning of the Terms of Service reflect, we should be able to express ourselves and comment appropriately. We have done this for 6 and a half years with NO problems until recently.

Severe restrictions for 99.9% of the obiders and locking in ultimatums for the fun WE ALL HAD before the restrictions is, well, Geoff, your perrogative.

I have been on the phone with Bjorn, Q, Joe..and many others..Maybe what you should do is collectively ask for feedback from those you want (other than moderators) in order to sincerely reflect on what the real "core" issue is here.

Silencing the core group who care, dedicate and willing to help any (not referring to myself alone) by censorship because of a few (known) offenders is, in my opinion harsh.

We are all adults..If a true look at the situation is afforded, and a true look at how this all started 4 months ago, I am sure a true defined cause will be found. You do not throw away a computer because of a virus...you fix it, upgrade your security and move on.

Yes Thanks!!!!! Its your site do as you will. Love it. Like you really need a moderater to tell you your being a jerk. Cabin fever hasn't even begun yet. Geoff you've got an awsome site!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone who wants to take over my admin. post with Geoffs blessing is very welcome.....
its not like I enjoy being the 'intervenor'....
I do this to help Geoff out...

I enjoy this site just as anyone else, and I am Soooo glad its not a "hostile place" like PY, I wonder how many times I thought of stopping my PY 'stop by', just because of its hostile environment...I am hoping this wont to go that same route.....
this place has been a very bright shining star compared to other sites...lets keep it that way...

and again , anyone may take my admin place if you think its fun!

Hey Bjorn, Don't even think about leaving! we like you too much
besides, the 2006 bonus has been doubled.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hey Bjorn, .............snip.
besides, the 2006 bonus has been doubled.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ok, that sounds like an offer you cant refuse......makes me feel better....

Geoff,

I am sure most of us take for granted the hard work you have put into this site. I have been a member for over 4 years. I too, like Tom (Banshee), have had a disagreement with another member that was resolved through communication on this site.

I have been laying low the past few weeks due to a couple of new "members" who have been actively "stirring the pot" lately because I was tired of the constant negative banter from these "members".

My feeling is everyone deserves a second chance (which these guys have obviously had), but if they don't follow the rules of decorum on the site, then they should be gone - at your discretion, of course.

I agree with Tom (Banshee) that we have had a pretty good run the past few years and have had few problems, until lately. Let's eliminate the problem(s), return to the active/lively forum we are used to and move on.

Again, thanks for a great site and your passion to keep it up and running.

Tom

Well I'm new to this site but not new in the pontiac hobby. I was surprised to visit today and find this section given a hard pruning!! However sometimes that's what's needed. I haven't been here long enough to be involved in nor see and hostility between any of the members here, but have been the brunt of some hostility at another popular site many many times. I was told of this site by friends who are members here and recommended it to me due to the friendly atmosphere here. I sincerely hope the problems are ironed out and I can continue to feel part of the FGF family. I already know many of you from other sites and personally feel it to be a huge sad waste if this site dies, because we all have a few things in common that bring us here, our love for first gen firebirds and the the desire to learn, help and make some new friends!! Just my 2 cents, which many of those who know me will tell you I can be very out spoken at times!! I love the site and believe most of the members here do as well!!! It's a "New Year" and a new beginning lets keep it cool!!

Bjorn,

Allow me to reflect on personal experience...

We have a shift of guys I work with...55 of them, been here 5 years..The overall morale, commaraderie and friendships are priceless. We recently got two maverick, outcasts from another district who liked to belittle, bash, isolate and make the group look bad.

We tried to welcome them into the flow of things here, but they had their own agenda. And they were soon ostracized and later fired for, well, very seroius problems.

How did these two people get this way? Poor feedback from peers, and being allowed by superiors to do what and when they wanted to be corrupt. That was the final investigation.

In order to have order and respect, you can not give second chances and latitude when initially the violators have made known their intentions.

So now I come to your comment..Bjorn

"I enjoy this site just as anyone else, and I am Soooo glad its not a "hostile place" like PY, I wonder how many times I thought of stopping my PY 'stop by', just because of its hostile environment...I am hoping this wont to go that same route.....
this place has been a very bright shining star compared to other sites...lets keep it that way...

and again , anyone may take my admin place if you think its fun"!

Hostility is bred when senior members observe newer members abuse their "pecking order" and make irrational "roasts" claims and attacks...And make assertive complaints, with little or no action. When I refer to "pecking order" I relate to two or three members engaged in a flowing gripping topic only to have some one line insipid, offensive comment made by a person for no defined reason or cause. These deviants from the norm (by norm, I am talking about 3-4 out of 4540 members) should have been dealt with a 0 ZERO tolerance long ago. It is not the amount of moderators that are needed to censor posts, it is the SWIFT AND DECISIVE decision to weed out the problem members before it festered to this...dried up, once tranquil stream where we all sat at the monitor with this site bookmarked and reflected, after work, before lunch, or during a snowstorm..looking at our Birds through the garage window...and enjoyed being at this site with freedom and fun.

Mary Ann, I still hope that its going to be true that what you heard is correct, and I`ve seen that you`ve been around on PY for a long time!....

Some ramblings...
+This virtual garage is certainly going through a bit of a rough period.
+I visit often, but don't post much... my knowledge of FGF's is growing, but it's still tiny.
+Perhaps because I don't post much, I haven't been "edited" as of yet, and I haven't witnessed any of the "personal attacks".
+From what I can gleen, it would seem that perhaps we have a few members that we could live without, and at the same time, perhaps a few of us need to develop thicker skins.
+Deleting users might go to the root of the problem moreso than deleting posts. That's just my $0.02 worth though, and again, I haven't witnessed the problems first hand.
+What knowledge I _HAVE_ managed to pick up has largely come from this site. For that, I have to thank the many members -both old and new- who have responded to my pleas for help! And of course, I also owe a huge thanks to the volunteers who keep this place running.
+Long live the FGF.org! I certainly hope we can pull it all together before she enters a death spiral...

I couldn’t have put it any better than Tom has, however, Bjorn, don’t think that you haven’t done a good job. You do a FANTASTIC JOB and I think that second chances are given based upon the situation. This is a message board, not the front lines, so I think a second chance is ok here. You were right to grant a second change,,,, a better man than me. However, that second chance was taken advantage of and nothing was done about it until this point. That’s the only mistake that anyone made and it has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Hey, no big deal baby. We take care of business and move on, you know?
Lets all give each other a big hug and move on without KGB style censoring and executions.
Come for the firebirds but stay for the people!
I feel the love,,,, do you

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I feel the love,,,, do you </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL, how can you not after something like that??
of course I could say (like the Bud commercial, ok Kel, listening?)
"I love you too, but you can`t have my Shiner Bock!"

Ok, this is the "ramblings" section...but after my 5th glass of wine by now ( and no time for dinner) its time for bed!

Joe , Thanks bud!

and I DO agree with BOTH Toms too...
good night!

I haven't posted much, well in the last 4 years anyway :p . I've checked in every week though, there isn't a better place to find info on these cars than here. Geoff, thanks for all the years of service you've given to update this forum, I think I joined the mail list in '98 it's gotten better over the years as the technology has changed.
Bjorn, thanks for the help in getting my posting problem fixed!

I have a rule... when I'm schlnockered I try to avoid posting to this site. A couple of times I have... and I sounded really stupid. I still love to check out the site late at night after a couple of beers but avoid posting. I wish things could be back like they were and I will miss Vikki and the knowledge she shared.

The good part is there are still a lot of awesome people on this board and I, for one, am not going anywhere.

Dave hehe, I can relate about the schlnockerd thing, I was going to go into the DREADED... MY 2,000,000.00 GT-40 is worth more than YOUR 2,000,000.00 GT-40.
Thankfully, I will not discuss those vehicles here ever again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I have a rule... when I'm schlnockered I try to avoid posting to this site. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah yes, must avoid the dreaded PUI.....Posting Under the Influence ......have to admit, I am guilty of that one :p
Kel

This is how I see the current issues..

Up until 3 months ago, this board was EXCELLENT. There have been 3 or 4 "members" causing ALL of the problems here since then, and now the rules have changed unreasonably (YES unreasonably) due to complaints received by and from people having no business here.

If 1 of my 8 hypothetical kids is bad, do I punish all 8 for ones malfeisance? It is unconscionable for me to beat and mistreat 7 kids that are good for the actions of the bad?

Lets get real here Geoff and nip the problem where the problem needs to be nipped. We did FINE with NO moderators or editing of posts (6 years) until the failure to react to the influx of all the junk I tried to report and retort failed to make a change.

And NO, I am NOT the only person who feels this way.

If you allow substandard members into your mix, (and allow them to remain) your ship will sink...and it is sinking. Instead of fixing the holes, you allow the holes to remain, but comission 10 other people to pump out the water (moderators)...what sense is that?

You need not moderation on this board Geoff...as it has proven over 6 years...I recommend weeding out the problems...and it has nothing to do with numbers of members...If you have a fun board all the time, a majority will embrace this and see for themselves. You allow, and continue to allow bad seeds, all new members will believe and see that this behavior as acceptable, then you have 10 times the work cut out for you.

And it has nothing to do with how many posts I have or how long I have been a member as your updated posts relate...

"This will be considered a violation of the User Agreement Terms and you may be banned without notice. There will be zero tolerance going forward no matter how long you have been a User or how much quality posts you have made in the past".

Geoff, without a handful of dedicated people who have made this board what it is today, it would have not suceeded as it has. Without the dedication and thought of 8-10 members knowledge, dedication, foresight and desire, this board would not be where it is today. You take away 10,000 true core posts, what do you have?

You kill the curse, you save the spirit....this board!

Bravo!

the way I look at it is.. Everyone has a right to be here as long as they retain a standard of what this site is all about FGF;s... Can't we all just get along?

No one has a "right", it is a privilege to be here. The majority of the active members RESPECT each other, and are HONEST with each other. There are a few who do not view the world that way, and will never be accepted. Getting along does not mean lowering personal standards.

I could not agree more with Vikki. She has summed it up in a nutshell.

I am sorry you feel that way.

Man, I've been missing all the Fireworks lately. I thought I frequented this board regularly and still I have yet to see anything overtly offensive. Perhaps the moderators "clean" faster than I read. :-)

Some people (None that I've seen here) purposely make inflammatory posts just to get folks riled-up. IGNORE THEM. They will dry up and go away.

Geoff - THANKS FOR THE GREAT BOARD. I WOULD TRULY REGRET ITS DEMISE.

Vikki - Come back! Please!!

After poking around a bit on the forum all I can ask is that we PLEASE hang onto this board tight with both hands! We can only do that if we are respectful and mindful of other's feelings.

Sometimes I precede a sarcastic joke with: Joke: ===> or some other indicator that you are just teasing a new, virtual acquaintance here.

Joke: ===> Ashtray is a chucklehead!


See? it works! :p :-) Hehehe Who luvs ya, Steve. HNY.

I tried that yesterday and got edited right away. No joking for me.

Whoa Jim. Well, let's see what happens to me and my evil post.

I think we all need to just ride out this storm and take a big New Year's breath.

Cheers all,
Scott

*cry* I just wrote a long post, and I hit "add reply" and got an error message. When I hit the back button, my text was all gone!

Basically, I was saying we should all be respectful of each other, but we should also be able to have some fun in the general forum area as well. Well, I said a TON more than that.

Maybe I'll try to post again later...

I guess I *am* a chucklehead!

I too am a long time member and frequent visitor (every day or so) but post rather infrequently.

I agree with the spirit of most of the posts. Over the years I've enjoyed the site partially because it *wasn't* like other sites in terms of bashing and attacks.

It's Geoff's board and it suits me however he wants to manage it -- I'll still be coming back.

John