What do you guys think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pont...ryZ6427QQihZ004QQitemZ140007978894QQrdZ1

Robert

I believe that guy is a major collector. You'd think he could afford a flash and a few more pictures plus description.

It's not a T/A.

ok, I'll bite Vikki: why do you believe it's NOT a T/A?

Why not Vikki? The documents say that it is.

sure looks like a TA ,esp the papers , but I thought all TA were blue interior? of course , what do I know? ,I`ve only seen a very few originals...(all with blue int)

Actually, the T/A's came with blue, black, and even 1 with red interior. Blue was the most produced. I believe there may have been another color offered as well.

Poser

Its not a factory TA.

Poser said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, the T/A's came with blue, black, and even 1 with red interior. Blue was the most produced. I believe there may have been another color offered as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">this one has white interior....

A Trans Am could be ordered with any color interior.

The most recent real convertible T/A to sell at auction was triple white - the only one of its kind, as far as I know.

The seller shows the VIN. Run your own PHS if you are that sure it's not real.

looks fishy to me, check the bidding, also he has some bad feedback regarding cars he's sold not being what he is saying they are, warning warning !!

Why do I think it's not a T/A? Where is the power steering cooler loop? Why is the alternator bracket wrong? Why does it have the wrong steering wheel...?

I would need proof that the VIN was from that car, and have the body tag info and engine VIN and at least one body or chassis VIN to bite. I've seen clones far more accurate than that.

He's selling a car for darn near $100K, but couldn't take the time to run spell-check, or grammar-check. Thats why I think it's a shady deal. There is something kimshi about this.

This guy has a good rep. He wouldn't try to sell it as a TA if it wasn't. Kind of nice feeling to be on the other side this time. It's just not a numbers correct perfect restoration. He expects you to come and look that's why the short description.

Then it's not a restoration. And it is not even advertised as numbers correct or numbers match.

I said it wasn't a restoration.

Here's the car's eBay description.:

Your bidding on a rare one of 114 Automatic Trans am. This car is even rare than that because of the white interior. This car is a very nice driver that could easly win your local car show. The interior is a 9 out of 10 and the paint is 9 out of 10 and the drivetrain is 9 out of 10. please see my other car for sale. If you have any questions please email me.

Seems realistic to me. I put quite a bit more into my descriptions but that's because I like fewer questions. You can't say that he is lying about any of it. He has about 3 mil in cars so I doubt he is outright lying about any of them. Definitely not your two bit lying scammer that you see faking pictures and documents.

Seller calls it a restoration in the listing title. 1969 Pontiac : Trans Am restored.

I guess I'm a diehard skeptic. And with that description I would not be hopping on a plane to go check it out, even if I had the cash to buy such a car.

What's there to be skeptical about? You have the PHS. It's missing a few parts. I see nothing that couldn't be set right. Why not buy one that needs a little work? You see what a fixer upper goes for. Must be that a perfect one goes for a lot more.

It would depend on if the drivetrain is correct and original to the car. The rest is restorable. That's assuming the PHS is authentic, and that the VIN is on the correct car.

A T/A or Ram Air pedigreed car without the numbers matching drivetrain is a hard sell at a high price. ANY collectible car loses significant value if it is not numbers matching. And that's a big chunk of money.

For the money I'd rather have two less pedigreed cars and a healthy upgrade budget. But that's my opinion.

I have no reason to suspect that the seller is misrepresenting the car. At the same time I don't feel that everything is quite right.

When is everything exactly right? I sent a question about the drive train. We will see what Miles has to say.

It seemed a bit odd to me also. It does say "restored". I guess that means that it has been messed with some. It seems that if he was expecting to get that kind of dough he would have taken a pic of the vin tag. We know the gauges are not on the list. I'm not saying he misrepresented it but...I guess sometimes the less information offered the better. Maybe that's the way it was sold to him.

Robert

Maybe I missed something here with the terribly posted description. I'm a skeptic too for the most part on high dollar Ebay auctions. Something feels stinky fishy about this but I could be off target.

Did it start at $70K?

$12K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> This guy has a good rep </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I gotta disagree with ya on this one Jim. 10 NEG's, 3 of them "vehicles not as listed", Private Bidder list always makes me wonder, with other NEG's and that I wouldn't risk $70, let alone $70K.



Kel :rolleyes:

Okay, so who lives near Evanston, Wyoming that can help out a bit here?

What....NOBODY?? For gods sakes lets get a volunteer here folks!!

not all trans am's had the wood wheel or blue interior or step guages.my friend has a 69 ta and it has parchment interior and no power steering cooling line and it did not come from the factory with step guages.probably the only thing every 69 ta had that was the same was the spoiler,hood,extractors,paint job.cameo white with lucern blue stripes.i may have missed a few things but i don't want to get too technical

There are better places to check 'car people' out than their eBay feedback. There are so many flaky buyers on Ebay you are bound to get some bad feedback if you are an aggressive seller. I had a guy buy a 30K GTO from me and then give me negative feedback because the car stalled on the way to the gas station! No communication at all, just negged me out of the blue! It's like Russian Roulette. Every time you sell you are pulling the trigger.

I asked around about Miles a year or two ago. He has been around and the big collector car guys all know him. The first person I asked was Banshee/Tom. I happened to be on the phone with him and thought he would be a good one to ask. Tom said, "If he says he has it, he does".
This is not my opinion. This is not one opinion. This is not two opinions. This is a bunch of credible people all vouching for the guy. You amature detectives can go 'lay down' because it's not a scam. 'Overpriced', now that's a matter of opinion. He's a smart guy that wants what he can get out of his collection. Having said that, don't buy anything from him without looking at it. Don't buy anything, for that kind of money, from anybody without looking at it.

I felt obligated to write this because I have been accused, over and over, for being too skeptical. The next time I point out a scammer, you all remember that when I have info to clear someone I will post it. I will work just as hard to clear a person than to show a scam when I find it.

Well assuming the seller IS on the up and up, and it is the real deal...I guess the question is how much is someone willing to pay for a TA that isn't completely original? I would hope anyone buying into something like this would take the time to go look at it or have a professional they could trust do it for them.

What do you think it will go for? Any bids? Hmmm?

Robert

I disagree, Jim. Not on the seller's rep, but on the car. The car as presented is not as the seller claims it, a restored 1969 Trans Am.

T/As consisted of a package of performance and appearance parts on top of a 400 H.O. Firebird. Options could be added that would alter the package and would be shown on the PHS. This car has options not on the PHS docs and is missing some T/A package items.

If the body is in fact a T/A, that's fine. If it's not a T/A, that's fine too as I'm not buying it. It has a nice steel hood and Ram Air components. I cannot tell if the fender extractors are functional from the photos online, and can't tell if the deck lid torsion rods are correct, can't read the body tag to see the code, and can't see the variously located VIN numbers. But the car as presented is not as the seller claims it, a restored 1969 Trans Am.

With as much money in the hobby as we are seeing, fraud is all too common. What do you do if you think you bought the "real thing" with documentation but it turns out to be a clone, or a modified car, or a spliced together car? Research it deeply to be certain it is truly fraudulent? Keep it forever? Sell it? And if you sell it, how do you list it? With short descriptions that leave room for interpretation, or with a great deal of detail that could come back to bite you in court? Or do you stop examining it when you first suspect it may have been misrepresented, so you can truthfully say you did not know it was a clone/spliced/salvaged car?

I am not making any accusations against the seller. I am just stating that I think the car is not entirely what it purports to be. If the additional evidence was provided and proved, I would be willing to reconsider my opinion.

That's funny! LOL The only problem you can find is he put the word 'restored' in the title. That certainly deserves a good thashing. Step back and see how silly that is. I have said my 69 vert is restored and it has a few things that aren't exactly correct and a few added things. My house is restored but it's not exactly like it was in 1866. Give me a better word for it. I wouldn't want people thinking bad thoughts when I use the word 'restored' too loosely.

You're a fine one to talk, Jim, when you lash into people with no proof at all. I listed several inconsistencies. And when you are talking about a top dollar car, it had better have a good explanation of why things are not as they should be.

I am done with this topic.

I wrote that before you edited. I don't lash out at anyone without proof. Back that up. Talk about lashing out.....

now now kids can't we all get along

Yes, this is how we get along. If you don't say it you never know.... How else would I know that I've been using the word 'restored' way too loosely? Kind of ironic because my eBay user ID is 'restorium'. I'm going to have to change it to 'refurbishedium'. DOH That's even longer......

Its all my fault. Sorry.

Good Nash , I`m glad you stepped up and took the blame....otherwise I would have thought it might become a political...blame game...LOL

for that asking price he sould a least taken better pictures and thats that

It's just an ad. That's all selling cars on eBay is, an ad. If he put it in trader.com it would be limited to three pics. You need to go and look so why do you need 50 pics? You need to talk to him on the phone first so why does it need a lengthy description?

Who cares? Really! Nobody here has the 70-110k to buy it (legit or not) and whomever does should be knowledgeable enough to verify, have someone (Scott Tieman) verify or have enough cash to blow that it just does not matter.

If it were (and I am not saying it isn't) Why is it not on the auction block in Scottsdale?

Wealthy collectors do not have the time to browse Ebay for legit cars, and most entrepreneurs looking to make a quick buck do not have the background (or expendible cash) to know if this is a legit car or not. So why bother with Epay?

Make your own conclusions...I am going back to spraying my driveway cracks for noxious weeds.

watch those fumes :p