Ok for those who have read my issues with the headers here goes a new problem. I went to the shop to check out the car today and the guy told me that the motor is not straight in the engine bay. Said thats why the headers are not clearing. When I looked at it compared to the other birds he had there the motor did look like it was twisted so the front of the motor was pointed towards the front right tire. It was not huge but after a closer look you could tell it was off. Im don't think it was ever in a accident it has the original glass and looks to be the original paint under the blue paint it has now. It drives straight and tracks down the road straight. Any ideas of what could have cuased this problem? Is the front sub frame bent or twisted? maybe the motor mounts installed wrong? If the frame was bent than wouldnt the sterring box have been bent with the motor and frame and would still match up? but seems the steering box is straight and the motor is crooked. I am still learning about old cars so any advice would be great Thanks!!

You may need to find a new shop, with a mechanic who has worked on first gen Firebirds, as well as an installation aid (big hammer) or a properly fitting set of headers.

If your headers say "fits 1967 to 1981 Firebirds" you can be quite certain that they will not. The first and second gen are NOT the same.

The drivetrain on first gen Firebirds with Pontiac engines and transmissions is offset from center. They were that way the day they were built. As long as you have the correct motor and trans mounts installed and they are bolted down properly, you should not have an issue.

You will see the offset all the way back to the differential...see the driveshaft alignment.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/v_papesh/detail?.dir=39e3&.dnm=2451.jpg&.src=ph

Hmm well he has a set of 3 tube headers on it now and they are right against the steering box. I understand the motor being off centered but this actully looks like the front of the motor points more towards the front right tire. Kinda like it is turned sideways instead of being straight and off center. When they were installing the new trans dip stick they had a hard time because the back right side of the motor was pushed towards the fire wall. I dont know how else to explain it, The bolts for the driver side mount were missing so maybe that might have screwed something up? but he replaced them now and having the problem. I want to give the guy the bennift of doubt he has 3 other 1st gens in his shop. And he has a 68 that is just awesome. Also when he was replacing the steering joint or the rag joint? there was a bigger space between the joint and he had to use 2 of them. The first owner didnt really take care of the care and screwed alot up. So I don't know what the deal is.

The Camaro had a smaller motor in it, and even the Big Block Chevy motors I believe are not quite as wide as the pontiac motors are. So as Vikki pointed out they mounted the motors about an inch or more to the passenger side to make ample room to clear the steering box.

I agree, that it sounds like this Mechanic may not know Pontiacs that well, or at least 67 - 69 Firebirds, and I would try to find some one else in the area with a first gen and see who they recommend.

Unfortunately, there are many headers that do not fit well even if they say they are made for just the first gens, let alone the style mentioned (67-81) that will not really work in the 1st gen birds.

Keep asking any questions you run into! That's why everyone is here, to lear and to help!

Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!

In that case I would think that either the body bushings are shot (or the holes/nuts they mount to, or the holes in the subframe may have rusted into slots) or the subframe may be pushed back or twisted on one side. Visual inspection with the car on a lift, combined with measuring simple things like distance from firewall to core support on each side, will help isolate the problem.

Well I just had the bushing replaced and new mounts welded into the sub frame along with a new radiator core support, Maybe the guy who welded in the new sub frame brackets put them on wrong or off centered because the holes were wallowed out and rusted. Maybe if he didnt line it up right it might have messed it all up? But the new brackets looked like there was not much room for error they fit pretty snug against the frame. Also the headers that were on it seemed to fit okay but they did use a hammer to dent in the tube next to the sterring box a bit.

Take a few body measurements. Firewall to core support on each side. Firewall to nose end of subframe each side. Rear of bellhousing flange (not head or block) on each side to firewall. You'll soon find where the problem is.

If floor pans have been replaced, position of subframe mount nut must be checked. If subframe needed rust repairs, position of repair plates must be checked. If body and subframe check out square but engine does not, then check your mounts.

Ahhh. Nobody told you that you need to dent the header a little to make it clear the steering box? I had to dent many to get them to fit.

Ill run by the shop tomorrow with this info and do a little research my self while im there. Thanks for all the help here guys! I can't wait to get mine looking and driving like some of yours!!

A liitle dent will do ya!

sounds like you could have a trans mount with too much offset to the passenger side that is twisting the motor

but anyway just use the hammer, thats how most of ours have fit

verify the "offset"...it should be about 1",,,if you have more the shop could be right...but 1" over to passenger side is about right....
this has come up many times, several people have thought their cars were wrecked because of this offset....you`re NOT the first!

Ditto here too! I had to ever-so-gently tap that sweet spot on the header right at the steering box to get her to slide in and avoid metal-metal contact. Just some light tapping will normally get that spot flat enough. Not sure why Hedman doesn't just change their production technique to fix that.