Ok I am new here and couldnt find any topics, I just got a 68 with the original motor. I was told it actully has heads from a 67, I am tring to replace the headers they are all smashed up on the bottom. I can't seem to find a pair that will fit now. The problem is they hit the steering box? I have it in the shop with a guy that works on firebirds, he said its the stock steering box but for some reasone the headers we try will not clear and fit. Anyone have any ideas to what is going on?

Can't help you on this, but I can say it happens on my '69. But I have a '73 455 in it with tube headers, they are dented and smashed up against the box. Are yours cast or tubes?

That's part of headers on a fgf. There are claims that Doug's fit, but based some pictures I have seen, I think it's the right header doesn't fit into the crossmember. Install them with a bfh and make them fit.

If the guy at the shop claims he has worked on Firebirds, it's obvious that has only worked on second generation and newer, and new Firebirds aren't Pontiacs.

Hedman. http://www.hedman.com/

I put Hedman's on my 67 bird 3 months ago, and had NO fitment problems at all. They were the easiest headers I ever installed.

Hedman 35270. Though I have not installed these into one of my cars, I have sent them to two others who have and reported no problems. Nashville is one of them.


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HED-35270

The Hedmans DO work fine on our FGFs. PMI USA talked me into them a few years ago and he was correct. It is a close tolerance fit on most stock configurations, but the Hedmans do fit fine. PM me if you have concerns or issues.

Hedman here to. Exellent fit. Easy to remove your oil filter. And your starter afterwards. Great ground clearance. Hedmans the way to go. They used to be on E-Bay all the time for 80.00 to 100.00 Bucks

What about the 3 tube headers? are those any good or how do they perform?

Hedman makes a set of three-tubers for FGFs as well as the 4-tube, but I can't for the life of me figure out why?

Why cut down 25 percent of the available manifold flow? There are four ports on each side, why would anyone want to force four into three?

A fellow FGFer PMed me today about headers versus RARE manifolds. Don't get me wrong, I love the Hedman headers on my '68. But if given a choice between those and a new set of RARE long-branch, I'd install the RAREs in a heart-beat.

I'll probably convert (revert?) to LB RARE manifolds this winter. The headers just put out too much heat during hot summer days and nights here for me. The heat takes its toll on ALL components under the hood.

Have you tried puting any insulation on the headers to combat the heat from the headers?

I was at a POCI Badger chapter picnic last weekend with a guy who had a '67 GTO with the 400 HO. He was complaining about his long branch exhaust manifolds. His beefs were heat transfer to the starter, and the difficulty of removing and installing the starter. He said it was a two man job.

The guy's comments are contrary to everything I've read. I thought cooler underhood temps and factory fit were the advantages of long branch manifolds.

I've got log manifolds now. Some day I'll either go to coated Hedman's or RARE long branch. There are just too many other things that have to come first.

While Longbranch manifolds will fit the engine, I was unaware they would work well in the chassis of a '67 GTO.
I've been through the header deal and after 10 years, I still love my LB's.

GTO and Firebird HO Manifolds differ. This guy's GTO was originally equipped with them because he had the 360 HP HO engine.

I'll take your advice though.

Rossetti, I agree with your thoughts. The guy sounds like he was talking about headers, not LBs.

Luminous, you can't use the heat tape on Hedmans, it voids their very good warranty (explicitly pointed out in their paperwork).

The tape wouldn't help much anyways. The exhaust only gets too hot on those VERY hot summer days and nights. Avoid that environment and they are okay. On days and nights like that, I know that if I drive anywhere, I'll be there for 30-45 minutes minimum before cranking her up again.

quick cure,fix it right.put stock manifolds on it.unless you are doing the qtr mile you dont need headers

68ofmine...I have some pictures of the 35270' s that I installed on my car. As others have said, they install and fit great. PM me with your e-mail if you would like to see them. Ron

Long Branch are the best way to go if the budget allows. Still is basically stock, but gives you almost as much performance as headers.
The headmans are probably the best all around for fit and price.

Mine came with Hooker Super Comps, and I like them, but they do hang down too far, as they are equal length tube headers. Otherwise they fit great. I can have them in or out in 30 min each way.

As far as the starter issues I use the starter relay:
Summit:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG1750&N=700+115&autoview=sku

Painless:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRF%2D30203&N=700+115&autoview=sku

I've never had a problem since, and it's gotten hot enought to perculate the fuel in the carb and cause Vapor lock in traffic.
Still cranks over just fine!

Brett!

Brett, that is the wackiest thing I've ever heard in my 30 years of messing around with cars. Those kits allow the solenoid to be moved to a cool location yet leave the starter intact?

Where is your solenoid currently located my friend??

Brett......come on.....tell us all about this relay that keeps the starter and solenoid cool.

I have a remote solenoid in the trunk, beside my trunk mounted battery. A remote solenoid is a remote solenoid, and I don't see what advantage the kits offer. Therefore, the correct solenoid for the fgf is listed as 1977 Pinto.

Oh yeah, the problem with the hot start has little to do with the solenoid. The solenoid either enguages or disenguages. Heat has nothing to do with it. The hot start is a case of the heat sink in the armature. This makes the amature swell and causes additional resistance. The remote solenoid doesn't require as much amperage to crank the car, offering a few additonal cranking amps.

From what I hear, the aftermarket 200 buck high torque mini starter is the only way to go.

Merv, we've been through this many times before in the past, but lets have another summary here:

o Putting a battery in the trunk is great, but doesn't help a starter sitting at 250+ degrees in the engine bay. It DOES keep a battery cooler longer and extends its life.

o Put a remote solenoid or relay in the trunk (or elsewhere), the starter is STILL where the power must turn the wheel, right?

o Those mini-starters (mounted to the engine as the originals) will still get exposed to 250+ degrees and most are made specifically for 1/4 mile race cars, correct?

The kits offer a bridging plate for the solenoid terminals rather than having to make your own. Plus they toss in a few fusible links for safety's sake. The solenoid itself is nothing special.

I drove my 'bird to visit Gary Plowman across Michigan, and had to stop to fill it up shortly after leaving his house. The engine was still very warm after the long freeway ride and following heat soak, and although it started fine at his house by the time we'd put on a few dozen miles it was good and warm again. I had to back the distributor off about 3 degrees so that the starter would turn over. That's a classic hot issue, and I have stock manifolds. The demand for current is higher than what my 3 year old battery will deliver through older cables to the original starter. When cold and with normal around town driving, all is well.

One of my winter projects will be to replace the battery cables. That 60" positive cable is probably housing internal corrosion.

I have headers and installed an IMI mini starter, works awsome, never had any issues starting it when hot.

That's the key, is these "kits" will allow more direct current flow for cranking. If you have slow cranking already, that may be a timing issue... or as Vikki mentioned poor cables with built up resistance. Here is more info Nash:

http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

Plus, it's another spot to add accessories if needed instead of cluttering up the battery terminal with ten different wires...

Brett!

Another thing to do is replace the cables with a larger diameter. I believe stock was #4, I found some #2 at NAPA which are double the cross-sectional area (half the resistance) and some folks are running #0 and #000 but I think that's overkill.

Brett, thanks for the link to the kit. Makes alot of sense, and only 30 bucks.

Well I guess I'll join in here also... :

I have the very nice ceramic coated 'doug's headers', -and a powermaster '3,5 HP' 'mini starter' -mind you, it's NOT for drag racing. -it's purely for street/strip..

-At first when cold, the starter cranked over the 11.5 compression engine like nothing....

-After driving on the highway, stop the engine, and start it right after again. -No problem..

Now,- the problem arises when the starters solenoid 'soaks' the heat from the headers..

-It simply won't start.. -You have to wait untill the solenoid cools down..

The solution is to override the starters solenoid, and locate a new solenoid to a cooler place..
-It was common on all the earlier fords, and if one needs a cheaper than 'painless wiring' solenoid -just order a ford starter solenoid..

-All the shelby race cars (you proberbly all have seen enginebay pictures of them) used them, -located on the passengers side ( in any cooler place)...

A starter can easily stand the heat from the headers, but the stock starters solenoid can not..

-So 30 bucks is cheap for a much better solenoid solution, compared to GM's original idea..


Hope this helps... -Helped my starting problems, if nothing else..

Could install a hidden ignition kill switch.
While turning over engine with key, flip the kill switch on.

Even if I didn't have intermittent Hot Summer Night starting issues, the remote solenoid set-up just makes so much sense. It prolonges the life of a few important components.