This looks promising. I want to pull my Accel HEI system, replace with MSD or something else, and replace the distributor. Anyone done this?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=160040253405&fromMakeTrack=true

I've done the MSD thing, but not in the HEI capacity. Started out with the 6AL box and my trusty accell dual point distributor. This past spring, I installed their billit distributor. I like it real well. That looks to be an excellent
deal, at least at the current bid. Should keep your khaki snappy!

The obvious question is: "Why pull the Accel HEI"?

I put an Accel points eliminator kit on mine. You have to wire it into your distributor, but the original harness for your car still works. They run about $70 at Auto Zone.

I'll tell ya why Jim:

The bird is back to her "start great one day, won't start the next day" routine. Plenty of battery power, plenty of starter action, plenty of fuel at all times. But for some reason she has days where she won't "ignite". Its driven me nuts for the past 12 months.

Then about once every week or two she'll give me this explosive BANG POP that wakes the whole neighborhood up when I crank her up, accompanied by that infamous thick noxious cloud of air-fuel mixture bellowing out the carb and exhaust pipes! Sets off the smoke alarm in the garage! Then an hour later she'll start and run just fine, as if nothing unusual ever happened.

I figure the distro assembly has never been replaced since I've owned her (other than the ACCEL HEI Super Coil and Cap assembly), so why not replace what could be a 38-year-old part.

John, I cannot comment one way or the other on that distributor. Its rating is claimed to be 50k volts. I'd have to go verify it-and I might be wrong--but if I remember correctly the stock hei pukes out 60k to 70k volts. I'm sure that someone can set this one straight as to the stock hei output.

There is a point where increasing the voltage doesn't make a difference. If increasing the voltage provided additonal performance, they would have simply have cranked the volatge up. The thing is that after whomever spent however much money on testing, it seems that somewhere in the 40k to 70k is where it's at, and more doesn't offer a thing.

The biggest problem is getting the spark advanced tailored to what best suits the engine, and the key lies in tweaking the mechanical advance. The seller claims the that the distributor has an adjustable vacume advance, so you're locked in to whatever preset mechanical advance at which the distributor is set. You can get an adjustable vacume advance for the hei, so I don't see what gain there is with the distributor.

I know the evolution process includes listening as much as thinking (or at least thinking that I'm thinking). One way to find out is to take a stab and see what happens. Who knows for sure unless one tries? My only concern is that there is a lot of snake oil and weaselpiss on the market, and you can guess my gut feeling on this distributor.

John, that #7 lead on the cap might be a sign. Why don't you try this: Get a new cap--save the replacment wire bit for later. When you install it, load the boots up with dielectric grease; also, use some d/grease between the coil and rubber cusion that holds the center connector on the cap. (Unlike the boots to cap connection, be a little more sparing with d/grease.

The hei throws a lot of fire, and even with point distributors, the fire can be squirrely. You might have a condition whereby the distribtor shorts out. It's a combination of s/happens and Muphy's law.

Nash, I'm confused. An Accel HEI that's 38 years old? That's what I'm running, Accel HEI. It's only about 5 years old. I bought it from Summit. It's completely electronic. Totally state of the art. Are you talking GM HEI? Or are you talking about just the coil?

Merv quote: "It's a combination of s/happens and Muphy's law."

Man, you hit that nail on the head didn't you my friend!?

Look, I am leaning towards thinking the old original distro assembly needs replacing and just figured the HEI "all in one" option is a good one. I'm not set on any specific replacement just yet, just thought I'd throw that Ebay link out there for comment.

I went to the NAPA guy this evening and he says the best MSD kit for what I want to do is close to $250. That may be the way to go, but I've got plenty of time to figure this out. NAPA guy says, as a troubleshooting cost measure - replace the stock distro assembly for 50 bucks, then attach my fairly new Accel HEI parts to it - and see what happens. He's a pretty good guy.

Besides, I garauntee that tommorrow morning I'll go out to the garage and she'll crank right up! She probably won't on Sunday afternoon, but we'll see when we get there!

Hey Nash. We've been running the MSD Pro Billet distributor and the MSD 6A with the MSD Blaster SS Coil. We purchased this from the MSD rep. at the NHRA drag races. This was his recommendation for the setup for our 350 engine in our Bird. We've been running it for about 5 years and it has been a really great system. You'll definitely feel the punch. Our mechanics who work on our car, were really impressed with the change from the stock distributor. His words were..it almost burnt his test light out. Don't know if you go to the drag races or not. That is where you'll get your best deals. Guaranteed you will be happy with this system.

Nash, I bought one of those HEI dist off ebay and a MSD box off craig's list just recently. Was one of the easiest installs I've done. Runs great. The ign box was even compatible with my original tach(a big plus in my book). The dist was surprisingly nice. I mean for 50 bucks I really didin't expect that. I was worried about the quality of the module but with the MSD you end up not using the module anyway. Comes with a new cap, rotor and adjustable vac can. I just bought an adj can from Summit in August. Cost me $30. I may buy another of those dist just an for extra.
The only downside to the dist is that the body is bigger and the vac can port hit the intake and I couldn't spin it enough for timing adj so once I got the vac adv set I had to bend the tube up enough so it will spin. No more adjusting that one.

Robert

Two cents: I run straight "generic" GM HEI. No coolness factor, but she seeems to start every time.

Jim, here is my quote from above:

"I figure the distro assembly has never been replaced since I've owned her (other than the ACCEL HEI Super Coil and Cap assembly), so why not replace what could be a 38-year-old part."

Now you see my friend that the distro assembly itself is probably original, while I've replaced the cap and coil with Accel parts over the past few years. Capeesh?

Smitty2K, who sells new generic GM HEI that has been evaluated here?

Is there a manufacturer you know that we aren't aware of, or are you refering to used or rebuilt parts? I don't care if its cool or shiny, I just want it to work for the price I pay for it.

I replaced my points distrubitor and coil with a $90 HEI off of E-bay. Very close to the one in your pic. Rated at 50k volts. Up graded to 8mm wires for around $30. So for about $120 complete new inginition. Very easy install.

Nash, tried to find the pic of your engine to see if you still have points or electronic ignition & can't. Sinse you say it is the original,I assume it is still points & condenser. I replaced my distributor with one from Advanced Auto. Around $50. Cap & rotor sold separately.I believe the part # is 30-1851, but I have a 326. As far as the points eliminator kit, it would be the same for all the Birds. Part #2010. I also put a new Accel coil on her. Part # 8140c. I hope this helps & I'm not wasting time you could be finding out something you really need to know.

Probably around $150 for all

Nash,
There is some confusion here. Let's clear it up a little. GM didn't start using HEI until the mid 70's. Accel makes an HEI and they also make an HEI Super Coil. Your car came with a points distributor. Not to be confused with an HEI. If you have an Accel Supercoil it's probably on top of either a GM HEI or an Accel HEI. If you have a 30+year old distributor it's not an HEI. You could have an Accel Super Stock Street Coil attached to your original points distributor.
An HEI is one of the simplest ways to improve over the stock distributor. After GM came out with them in the mid seventies it was the best thing going for a quick swap. Accel came out with the Supercoil that sits on top of the GM HEI in the 80's. Now, twenty some years later, most of the GM HEI's are all worn out too. Accel came out with a high breed HEI a few years(maybe 10)back. It's an amazing unit that as a electonic board in it where the GM had solid state electronic parts. I bought my modern Accel HEI from Summit. I'm happy with it.

That's where I was lost on this subject. In 74 HEI was optional & in 75 it was stock

Here's the link to Summit's Accel HEI. $230. It's a newer version of what I have.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ACC%2D52102&N=700+4294908153+4294925143+4294839065+4294881256+4294881254+115&autoview=sku

I am no expert on Distributors but after reading other pontiac boards about these $50 HEI set ups I bought an MSD Pro Billet this week. I would ask the seller if they are 1 piece shaft or 2 piece, saw what happened at the track last year when a two piece came apart.

Yah. A $50 used HEI could really cost you. The thing could have 300,000 miles on it! No telling who monkeyed with it and what they did.

Why would anybody buy a used HEI when you can get a new one from Ebay for under $100

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bran...itemZ250040491956QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

This is the one I bought. Fast shipping. Good instructions

Let us know how it works. Are you going to test it soon? I see what you mean. Here's another one. Too cheap or not too cheap???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PONT...itemZ260041373201QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

It works great. had it installed on the car all summer. Put on close to 2500 miles. I used a set of 8mm Belden plug wires from NAPA. I think they were for a Ford.I chose to buy premade wires instead of making my own. I can get the part number and application of the plug wires tonight if you would like.

Looks like the CRT is cheap but not too cheap. It looks better than the really cheapy I put the eBay link up for. Why pay $230 from Accel when the $75 from CRT works good? I would buy the CRT if my Accel started acting up. My Accel has made some 'clicky' noises from the start. Always works but what's up with the clicky thing? Does the CRT click? Does it have the computer type board in it where the module normally would be?

No clicky sounds. and yes it has the computer type board. but it is in sealed plastic to protect it from moister.

Maybe I'm going to get away from the clicky thing...

I have done a terrible job here explaining what ignition I have and what I'm trying to do. Sorry folks. I'll start a new thread and be more specific and accurate.

We are homing in on the final product. You following... All you will need to do is drop it in and wire it.

I bought two off Ebay this weekend, including the one you linked to. I'll do some exerimenting. Also want to rebuild the old one I have now if it proves to be of some value.

Cool John! They are really easy to swap. I think you should investigate where your power for the distributor is coming from. It could explain some of the trouble you are having. It would be interesting to know if your new Accel parts(coil) would fit the CRT from eBay.

Jim, my power to the distro comes directly from an aftermarket line to the fuse box. Its the main open tab in the middle (accessory?) thats only hot when the key is turned.

I like to splice right into the ignition wire where it comes from the switch. On the 68, I believe you need the one from the starter also? I think 69 was the first year that had the set up where the ignition also provided power while cranking.

With my current HEI set-up, there is only one wire coming off the starter (other than the main POS going in from the battery of course).

I'm going to have to review the wiring diagram for the 68.

After further review LOL You need to run a wire from the R on the starter to the distributor in addition to the other power source. Maybe this is a cause for some of your earlier described problems?

Jim, thats a NO-GO for 1968 350/400 birds with aftermarket second gen-GM HEI.

There are only two wires connected to the starter for us: The main POS cable from the battery, and the "S" connector on the solenoid. There are not three connections as is normal and indicated in the 1968 diagrams. Only two, been driving just fine this way for many years.

Connecting the third wire (to the solenoid "D" terminal I believe) causes the starter to re-engage and the POS connector on the battery to overheat and melt down. I've seen it myself first hand. Maybe its just my particular GM HEI distro.

As long as your power source doesn't cut out when you engage the starter you are fine. You know how everything quits when you turn the key all the way to start? The 69 has the ignition switch on the lower column and provides power to the coil during this period of cranking. If the 68 has this built into the dash switch then you are good to go. I looked at the 68 wiring diagram and compared it to the 69 wiring diagram to come up with the idea that they were different. No guessing.

Hey, I went by NAPA on the way to work this morning and he swears he can get the 2nd GEN GM HEI (which it appears I have, right?) for about $150 duckies.

I may go that route if these after-market all-in-ones prove to be troublesome.