Trying to get up to speed and need some help!

Do all true 67/68 400 firebirds have 3F on their dataplates?

Why do some 67 400 firebirds have flat hoods with 400 emblems on it? Thought all 400 cars came with the scooped hoods.

Why do some 400 cars have the 400 emblem on the trunk and others do not?

How can you tell if a 400 car is NOM. I know at some point in 68, the vin is stamped on the block...other then that, is it only a guess based on the car having a pre-car build date stamped engine (ex. engine built or date stamped in 2/67 and car built 4/67?

Any other ways to tell if a car is NOM or a true 400. I know a 400 car will have the extended grill moulding and emblem on the front bumper..anything else.

Any other pointers I should look for when going to look at a car which is claimed to be a real 400 car/NOM.

Thanks in advance-this info not in frequently asked questions.

Q Do all true 67/68 400 firebirds have 3F on their dataplates?

A Just 67.

Q Why do some 67 400 firebirds have flat hoods with 400 emblems on it? Thought all 400 cars came with the scooped hoods.

A Somebody put the 400 emblems on the flat hood.

Q Why do some 400 cars have the 400 emblem on the trunk and others do not?

A Replaced the truck lid.

Q How can you tell if a 400 car is NOM. I know at some point in 68, the vin is stamped on the block...other then that, is it only a guess based on the car having a pre-car build date stamped engine (ex. engine built or date stamped in 2/67 and car built 4/67?

A You answered that one yourself.

Q Any other ways to tell if a car is NOM or a true 400. I know a 400 car will have the extended grill moulding and emblem on the front bumper..anything else.

A The only 'fool-proof' way to tell if a car is anything, including a 400 car, is with PHS.

67 had the 3F but there is nothing on the '68 data plate which identifies engine.

400s came with scoop hoods, grill chrome "hocky stick", emblems on the hood and trunk, dual exhausts (not totally unique to 400), and a few other options shared with AC equipped cars like baffles and fillers enclosing the radiator area.

Those items may provide a clue to identity but in 37-38 years lots of stuff got replaced, added, switched or removed so that only a PHS documentation can tell you for sure.

You can use a number of engine markings to help identify the car's engine. See: http://www.teufert.net/identify/identify.htm

Looks like Jim was typing when I was - bottom line on both: PHS

well, some cases , its a 326,350 car with 400 engine (a clone), and not 'cloned' all the way...= no trunk emblem...

I can tell you that nice original 400 Birds are fairly hard to find. Start with the PHS as said before. If the owner has the original Protect-O-Plate, I believe the motor unit number on the block is on the card. If the 68 400 does not have the VIN or if you suspect a fake, you can start by sanding the paint off the motor unit number, two letter code on the front of the block and the VIN to see if it looks like it may have been restamped. Blocks also have their cubic inches cast into them--such as 400 or 455.

A cast date a few weeks to over three months before the build week of the car is reasonable. My Judge's original block is about 3 months before the car build week.

Of course an engine's heads, intake, carb and exhause manifolds can be checked for the original part numbers and reasonable cast dates. If some are not original, you can probably find them, but an original block will usually have its original heads. Intakes, carbs and exhaust manifolds are often changed.

I believe that most 68's had the VIN in the block--especially the later build cars. It is hard to see. If unsure, take your time and take someone who has done this before. A mirror held down from the top can do the trick.

Also, most of the charts do not show the later production 68 Firebird 400 intake part number, as it changed late in production. My fourth week of May 68 Bird has it. Let me know if you want it--a pm will ensure that I see the message.

Good luck

Thanks for the responses. Trying to make sure I get what I pay for...plenty of fakes claiming to be the real deal. These questions were the ones which I kind of had in the back of my head when looking at potential cars.

PHS by fax is very quick, very convenient. I went to look at a car Friday that was said to be a numbers matching 400...PHS made it easy to tell that it was not.

Motor unit number, located on engine just above the two letter engine code, should match PHS billing history.

A cool thing that happened to me once a long while back: I bought a 69 'Bird about a 100 miles north of me from a gal that lived way out in the woods. $1000 was what it went for. I bought it because it was a solid car. That, and it had a 428 in it. I restored it to look like a 400 car. I mean every detail was changed to what a 400 car would have. There were no 400 car parts on it when I bought it. This was before the PHS craze. At least, I wasn't buying the PHS back in the 80's. The 90's roll around and the big push for originality came along. Just for grins, I sent for the PHS on my cloned 400 car. Guess what? It was originally factory built as a 400 car! This will go to show you how much these cars get changed back and forth over the years.

Yellowbird makes a good point, but from my experience, the engine unit number is almost never listed on the PHS for some reason. I have seen it a few times, but not much.

Good point. It would be best to check the casting date anyway. It's the hardest number to fudge.