Amervo wrote the below in another thread, I considered it kind of thought provoking so I thought I'd start a driver/show thread.

"All I want is to see if I can upgrade to lessor junk than what I already have. If I had the burning desire to look at the car as something that one cannot throw too much money at, I would simply buy a set of preped aluminun heads. The car isn't used enough to justify dumping a lot of money into it. I see some of the guys at the local show. Yeah, they're hot cars but they only drive them to the show and home. Other than that, they cannot move them.

They never drive them up and down the street. I don't know whether it's a case of too expensive to move, meaning that they have burried themselves so finincally deep into the car that they cannot afford to start it, up or the wear tear factor or a combination of both.

All I seek is to make it look as good as it can and run as well as it can for the least amount of money. That way, I can drive it up and down the street a few times."


A very, very good point Amervo, but I guess each person has their own line to cross?

I just got back from the body shop, we're heading toward 10 grand by the time it's painted and returned home. By the time I do all my stuff to it we could be approaching 20 G's easy, and with a fairly radical engine this car will no doubt be a weekend cruise in toy with the occasional commute for fun. I just don't see a real daily driving opportunity here.
But it's also hard to figure why we would consider 20 G in an old restored car to be expensive when it will only increase in value, but we'll spend 30+ on a new car that will go down in value.
Other than milage, depenability and creature comforts I'd prefer the old one, oh right, that covers about everything

Once I get the convertible restored it will probably be more of a driver since it's an OHC-6 car. Very fun car to drive, but I'll probably have about the same amount in it as well, and it's still a 40 year old car with limited safety features.

I suppose if you bought a decent driver that only needed upkeep and replace the parts as needed one could drive it daily and not think twice about cost, investment and wear. However, a restored car is a significant investment in time and money.
But as I tell the wife, "You can't drive a mutual fund and a CD doesn't have a killer 2nd gear"

What's everyones take on a driver vs toy?

I guess I started the same way. Looking at just having a car for a little cruzing and going the local car shows. The first several years were great. But as time went I was slowly getting tired of the car show sceen. Really getting burned out I quess more than anything. Doing WAY to many. Done mostly all the shows within a 50 mile radius. Now I mainly trailer around. One to see other cars and people!. And at 6 miles to the gallon nope. Thats the other side of the coin. Ive now gone the route of trying to make this car faster. Mostly because of the group of people I run with. Spending alot of time at the track. But we have no kids so I can spend time and $ on this car. Its got to the point that we have more $$$ in the car then I bought my house for 15 years ago. But I can sleep in the car but can't drive the house around. We've had alot of great times taking this car out of state. To Firebird nats and POCI event. But at the end of the day I still enjoy going out to the garage. Jumping in and taking a little putt around town. Its a driver!!!!! And an awsome toy I get to play with anytime I want. Priceless

No show for me. All go! There are so many ways to get sidetracked. The 'go faster' fever will get you. When it does, you will spend more than you really wanted to and move your car further from what you really wanted in the first place. I caught the fever and my coupe got so far along down that path that it was easier to sell it and start over with another car then to try to take it back to where I wanted to be in the first place. Now I'm finally where I wanted to be, owning a 1st gen that's a driver anytime I want it to be. It would be a joke at the track but I've been there and done that now.
The other way to get sidetracked is the 'show car' fever. You can get a car so rediculously clean that you live in constant fear of a speck of dirt. Some people do not drive their cars at all because it would take them 40 hours to get it clean enough to show. Get these fevers out of your system and then you can really relax! Relax and drive.

I dont figure mine as a "show" car , but some of my friends do...its been "shown"...it was part of the Pontiac exhibit last year at Houstons new car show....but thats not why I have it...
I bought mine ,"needed work "...I 'restored' it to drive ,to enjoy ,to cruise...I have probably $24-25k in it...insured for $20k...maybe should go for more , but...I enjoy cruising it, mostly every chance I get, drive it to the office once inawhile , maybe 10 x / yr......but its definitely an "enjoyment cruiser"

My bird goes so fast, that I have no one to show it to...
;-)

Luckily mine is in excellent condition all around, but I sure am more into go than show..

But a killer engine bay where you can really tell that it's all good stuff(GO-stuff), is show for me also.. -especially if it isn't too much chrome, and I have to wear my shades not to be blinded..

I'm shooting for Saturday afternoon jaunts and Cruise-in type shows. We have enough around here to drive every weekend and sometimes several on the same day which is neat going from one to the other, reminds me of HS cruising days hitting multiple joints in an evening.
Points shows don't really interest me, I like going to look but not to enter. Might do a Pontiac only show.

The build I'm going for is really what my car has always been, the maximum (factory) high performance parts I can get on a period style hot rod. No nitrous, no blowers, no crate motors, no overdrives or high powered stereos, no resto mod, pro street or pro tour, etc...

Minimal amount of chrome under the hood as well. AND NO BILLIT ANYTHING.
I want to show, but mainly to show that it will go.

Anyone can build anything they want, to each his own, that's what make this hobby so unique and personal. But with all the fads that come and go I don't think you can go wrong with factory parts and an un-molested car body. Anyone can plunk down cash for aluminum heads and matched intake, carbs, serpentine belt systems, etc.. all you need is a catalog, but find a pair of IV heads, an Aluminum RA intake and long branch manifolds, busting through a Muncie or TH400, now were talking unique even though those are factory parts. Seems that things have turned around somewhat.

Go. And after you've finished going, go some more.

I couldn't imagine NOT driving such a car. I spent over 2 years looking for my FGF and found it just this summer (then I told the wife we needed a second car...just left out the 'practical' part).

And I can honestly say that I grin like a kid at Christmas every time I drive it.

Just enough show and go for me. A really nice slick car that people will compliment you on and a car that can hold its own.
My car is a very respectable driver that needs a little bit more go and show. Getting there winter by winter. This year, a little more loose ends to tie up and perhaps some go parts, but I dont really know.
The best cars to me have healthy balance of both. Thats where I want to be.

I've had...lost track...somewhere around 35 cars. It is coincidental that when I reached driving age, the cars readily available were the musclecars of the late '60s and very early '70s, that had reached that point where they were merely fuel hungry, big OLD cars. Few people wanted a fuel hungry, lead demanding engine when gas was $1.82 a gallon in 1982 and leaded was going away. So I've had a lot of good ones, cars that I'd love to have an opportunity to buy again especially at the prices they once sold for.

Some of the cars were GM, some Chrysler, some Ford...but all were GO cars, none were SHOW cars. Many already had 80K+ miles, were rusted, dented, or otherwise looked broken down and miserable. I drove them everywhere, that was what I drove. Owning a respectable newer car was out of the question. I was hassled for loud exhaust, for lighting up the tires, for cracked glass. I tired of the "all go" eventually, but could never afford the paint and bodywork required for the next step.

Years went by, some without any older cars. Most newer cars are more convenient, more practical, more comfortable, and about as interesting as a loaf of white bread. But I was definitely bored with the sameness, and missed the occasional chat with a passerby about my car. Who the heck wants to talk about a Neon??? Sure not me. So I went back to looking for an old beast, now even older, even rougher, and even more expensive.

I want a car that is reasonably reliable...I can expect it to start and drive, get me to my destination, and return me home without incident. I want a car that is acceptably complete and clean inside and out, that has no major battle wounds nor visible damage, that accelerates strongly, corners steadily, brakes quickly. I want to be able to take it out and cruise it without it looking like a POS, I want my friends and family to be willing or even eager to go for a ride or drive. I also don't want it to be so perfect that I fear taking it out on the road, that if I happen to pick up gravel chips it won't ruin the car, that if I happen to get caught in the rain I don't need to go crazy with worry.

I will work, or spend, or both, to meet these needs. I no longer think of a car as having a fatal flaw if it does not have the highest displacement engine made. I just truly enjoy the experience of having a big old engine rumble to life and to have it respond to my input in a way that a newer, isolated from the experience, car will never do.

I'm with the correct restoration, but want to drive it on sunny days and to the odd local (Vancouver) or Seattle area show, but don't want to be a show chaser!

Restoring the 400 stock with a little hotter cam, but who knows, may play with it once the car is rolling again.

Putting enough $ in to get the looks and compliments, and be show type material but the main thing is to enjoy it thru drivin the beast.

I started driving mine in '78, thrashed on it, autocrossed it for the next three years, street raced, top end runs by the dozen, long black marks by the multiple yards - in general, had a blast! I did a quick clean-up when I got it, new top, paint, started the interior but mostly drivetrain and suspension work. I did get some compliments but enjoyed the sour looks from the losers!

It has been dormant for the last fifteen years, waiting to be done right - and "right" ranges from resto to radical depending on my mood!

The saying goes something like, "Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?"

Going fast may be a never-ending quest to go $faster$. It is definitely the "dark side." Fun, and all too tempting for any real car guy.

My car came with a 2.78 rear and therefore kept me headed down the "light side" of kind of factory originality and not all that fast. My car is fun and sounds good and with a 700R-4 I can cruise at 80 mph at 2100 rpm at 18+ mpg.

If you want a long distance cruiser, you almost HAVE to install an overdrive AT (700R-4, 200-4R) or overdrive MT like a Tremec.

No matter what you do, make sure you have good brakes. Either dang well maintained drums or power front discs like many of us.

I've done a few "show and shines", but no real car shows.

Mine is all "go", definetely a driver.

I love to drive it, and do so at least once a week during the commute to work, and most certainly on weekends as well. He||, I just love to hear it run in the garage! I'd like it to be in a little better shape than it is, but for me, it would be a shame if I was ever scared to drive it.

To that end, my #1 project this winter will be installing 3 point seat belts in the front and back seats -- my boys are getting too big for infant car seats. This mod will certainly take away from the car's originality (which I truely love), but it means I can "go" more next summer with the whole family.

I believe in having both. We have some really fun car shows in the local area where they block off the entire downtown of a small town, bring in a band and food vendors and have a party. Most of the muscle cars are bone stock down to having F70s and dog dish hubcaps so I'm looking forward to being a little different. As for driving - I hope to do a lot of that and built the car for comfort. Show, go and in comfort!

I would say mine is more go than show i am not really interested in showing it but i may take it to an occasional car show like the car craft summer nats in Minnesota but other than that i would like to go to local cruises and to the drag strip.I just like to have fun with it.

Jeremy Wyborney
http://firstgenfirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=790

I bought mine just wanting to " get it together" quick & drive it. The more I got into working on it, the more I wanted to do it right. When I told my wife all the mudded panels were coming off & being replaced after a whole summer of countless hours of body & engine work she said she already knew that was going to happen, just a matter of time for me to come to my senses & put it together right instead of trying to slop something together just to hurry up & get it on the road. Mine won't be a #'s matching show car, I really don't care about that. I want to go climb in her & fire her up & go for a ride whenever the notion strikes me. They have "cruise ins" around here in the summer & I'd like to go to some of those. I want a daily driver ( when I can afford the gas) that has decent (ok, REAL) power, I have a few chrome parts, but not too many. Just enough for a little flash. I want to show her off, not show her. Guess I'll stop now, get me started about my Bird &.........................

Let's see
spend 30K on one of two cars to drive...
One decreases in value, the other increases.
You have to spend more on either than you could ever sell or insure either for.

To me the choice seems clear, but I don't like airbags or ABS. The rest you could include in your build. If you want MPG, you have to sacrifice power. MPG comparable to new vehicles is possible with comparative power if you have the money to do it, but each time you "get on it" it might cost you a little extra, just like on the new cars.

Scott is correct on this one. It's rare that you will ever recoupe money spent, and it's pure speculation, but that becomes a different debate.

A lot has to do with where you fall on the timeline. I have been driving since the spring of 74, and I have owned a total of 6 cars in my life, one of which I never registered and the other, and 2 of which became my current bird.

The motorhead syndrome has been around since cars were invented. Old school motorhead had yet seperated the 2 points of view of this thread. This is where I fall into the equasion. When I started out in the firebird, it wasn't a driver, it was transportation to work. There were a couple of folks that didn't fit the mold, but most of the motorheads didn't have a lot of money. When you popped the hood and broke out the wrenches, it had to fire up in the early am.

(Things have changed because there are now a lot of people who are involved with specail interest cars that--maybe they don't have money rolling out of their butts--are better off than many. Another thing that has changed since then is that a large part of the population cannot be labled as true motorheads because they don't do signifigant work on their cars. It's just the evolution of the interest in the cars, the changes that keep it alive.)

When I first bought the bird, there were still some who clinged to the wishes of being a soldier in the performance wars. It was a minority, and lots of the boardmembers on both ends of the 50 year old milemarker weren't warriors, or if they were, they retired from the battle. The ones who still played had a fairly good selection because supply was somewhat plentiful because demand wasn't such a strong force. And it started to die back even more as the timeline clicked.

I fall into the leftover group. It's been an obsession that will celebrate its 3rd decade in early September, and I manh of the bones in the bird have been titled to me since day one. So I cannot say eigher show or go because the car is an extension of me.

I WOULD drive my Suzi-Q everyday but the cost of fuel would be ridiculous for me. She only takes 93 octane and she gets very bad gas mileage.

2-3 days a week is all I can do, and ONLY when its clear blue and 22 (sunny) outside.

I just wish I could get mine away from these !@#$%^&* oak leaves.
They stuff down under the cowl and into the vents and rot.
It's my only licensed vehicle and it's been outside for the last 5yrs.