can anyone help ID this tranny for me?....First pic is PQ831? ...Thanks

Check here:

http://www.5speeds.com/muncie2.htm

to see if it is a Muncie.

Tom

Based on the P0B31B stamping, I can break this down as follows:
P = 4 spd manual Muncie
0 = Model Year / 1970
B = February
31 = Assembly Date
The last character is difficult to make out. To me it looks like a "B". The last character indicates transmission model:
A = M20
B = M21
C = M22

Hope this helps.

OK Thanks for the quick responses and now I am really confused??/ The casing is a 5885010...The cover is a 3884685..and the tail shaft is a 3857584....And I am not sure of the stamping either it is a PO or a PQ ???? anyone?????....Also there are no rings on the shaft..????

So Tom, If I read things correct, The tranny is a 1967 M22 ??

There will be 3 seperate casting numbers on the trans.

PQ is a Th400 Ram Air auto trans

Sept 3rd 68 M-21 trans...from what I could see of the P0381B

so with the casting of 3885010 it shows 65-67 only?.............
...Case casting numbers, relating production years and ratios available

Casting: 3831704 Years: 1963 Only Ratios: M20 2.56 1st , M21 2.20 1st
Casting: 3851325 Years: 1964 - 1965 Ratios: M20 2.56 1st , M21 2.20 1st
Casting: 3885010 Years: 1965 - 1967 Ratios: M20 2.52 1st , M21 2.20 1st, M22 2.20 1st

also here are the casting #'s....?????....

Main Case

3831704 1963 Only small 6207NR Front Bearing ,Pat. Pending, 7/8" Bore
3839606 1963 - 1964 Regular Bearing Pat. Pending, 7/8" Bore
3851325 1964 -1965 7/8" Bore Patent Pending Mostly 1964
3851325 1964 –1965 7/8" Bore Patent Number
3864848 1965 7/8" Bore Patent Number
3864_____ 1965 Milled off last 3 digits 7/8" Bore Patent Number
3885010 1966 -1967 1" Bore Patent Number
3925660 1968 – 1970 1" Bore Patent Number
3925661 1970 – 1974 (some early 1975 cars) 1" Bore Patent Number


Tailhousing

3831731 1963 "Thin Fin Tail" Driver speedo 27 spline
3846429 1963 "Thin Fin Tail" Driver speedo 27 spline
3846429 1963-1965 Regular thick web, driver speedo, 27 spline
9779246 1964 – 1965 Pontiac Catalina Long Tail Driver Speedo 27 Spline
3857584 1966 – 1970 Passenger side speedo, 27 spline
3978764 1970 – 1974 passenger speedo, 32 spline output


Side Cover

3831707 1963-1965 Early side cover stud type shift shafts
3884685 Cover issued with "584" tail stud type shift shafts
3950306 Short boss with bolt on type shift shafts - no switches
3952642 Long boss bolt on type w/ TCS switch on 3-4
3952648 Short boss bolt on type w/ TCS switch on 3-4

335308 Long boss bolt on type with neutral safety switch. Some have a boss for the switch that is cast but not machined on 1-2.

ok I took the time to crop and shade this pic....now it looks like PO831C...????....

67 casings were produced for the 1968 model year. 1968 Firebirds were released in 1967.

And the same for 68/69

Anyone can switch a case, tailshaft or

This case was not changed nor was the tailshaft..It is all original It is at a local machine shop for sale for 550.00 and they claim it is a M22. ..Just thought it was a good buy for someone that needed it....It still shows to me to be a M22

For $550, I'll buy it.

Why would you want it if you think it was changed? ...It is for sale and they claim it to be all original and they will clean and inspect it and change the fluid prior to selling it. I will make no $ from this. If anyone really needs it let me know..

A Muncie trans is worth $400 as a core anyhow. I can justify the $150 plus shipping for the risk.

But I will lay a gentlemans bet that this trans in question is not an M-22.

Would have to tear the trans apart to tell the 10 degree difference in gear angle.

I could build a brand new Auto Gear cased Masiero geared M-22 with all new components for $1200 with a steel midplate. Strongest, best "Muncie" built.

If it were just a plain old M-20 $550 is high, If M-21, you are getting a deal, If an M-22, a helluva deal (but unlikely an M-22 with that Main case casting number. Either a restamp or the real deal. Buy it and post the pictures of the gear cluster.

Banshee, If you would like, I will try to get to that machine shop and get better pics for you...Please tell me what else to photo and I will do it...That is if you really are seriuos.
John

To make it simple: An M22 gearbox has a 20 degree helix angle on the gearset as opposed to a 45 degree angle.
Show that the trans has the 20 degree gear and then you have something more than just a regular Muncie. A regular Muncie without a reputable shop's guaranty is worth $400-$500. You have to assume that it doesn't work.

Jim, All I have are the #'s on the tranny....I did not open it and don't really care to. I was told by the machine shop that it is a m22 and they will guarantee it. again all I ask is what the castings show it to be? what do they show it to be is the question?

Casing casting numbers mean nothing other than what tranny may have donated each part. I have heard many many guarantees that a Muncie is an M22. Never has the gaurantee made the trans an M22. Only the guts make it an M22. If you had the guts then you start looking at the casting numbers to see if they match the guts. That is, if the numbers really matter to you. To me, a Muncie for sale is either new/rebuilt or needs a rebuild.