The chassis build in two numbers followed by A,B,C,D or E. The chassis build is on the cowl tag on firewall, just to left of master cylinder just below "BODY" in BODY BY FISHER.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
"If you have Bird Glass, What is the Fisher Body tag build date? Lets keep this limited to only 68 owners and factual data. Please refrain from any other hijacks. And if you have PHS, lets run down the option codes as well".
You did not post your cowl tag info!
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
01D (week 4 Jan 68) no Bird glass. Custom interior.
(This was assembled a few years ago on the "List". I'll see if I saved the responses. It would be in my AOL mail on my old computer if I saved it. No date or option code correlation was found at that time. Hope you find one.)
07D with bird glass Trim 59 - Verdoro green - black int. and black conv. top options: 343 - 350cid 352 - auto trans 472 - console 501 - power steering 502 - power brakes 544 - power conv. top 551 - power windows 554 - custom trim TMD - wsw F70x14 tires
Jordan, All Firebird bodies were built by Fisher Body. Your sill plates are part of the designation, your cowl tag reads year, make model, options (67 only) paint code, vinyl top code, interior trim code/color etc.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
When I lifted the data from the tag a while back, I did so by rubbing a pencil on a piece of paper held over the plate. I can't make out those 3 characters so I'll go out to the garage tomorrow.
I can say though that the build date would be before June 20, 1968 because I still have the original owner's manual and protecto-plate. That date appears on one of them.
Mark
68 Firebird 350 auto (sold) 70 Trans Am RAIII 400 4-speed (sold) 2011 Challenger SRT8 IE392 6-speed (sold) 2017 Challenger Hellcat 1966 Dodge Coronet 440
What happens if Terry sends you cowl data on the eight '68 birds he has in the FL yard, then announces "none currently have any glass to speak of"?
Will that skew this research project? It looks to me like you are trying to call someones bluff on a fib. Why not be upfront about it if thats the case?
I've fibbed (exagerated) here once or twice and you've all called me on the carpet. Can't fib much here, thats what I like about this website!!
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
For those of you with 68's..We need to dispel myths surrounding Bird glass.If you have Bird Glass, What is the Fisher Body tag build date?
Lets see if we can figure this out. My April coded 68 did not. My 3rd week December 68 does.Lets keep this limited to only 68 owners and factual data. Please refrain from any other hijacks. And if you have PHS, lets run down the option codes as well.
John, no joke here. If you read the post..if you have a 68 and Bird glass, post your cowl tag data.
IF YOU HAVE BIRD GLASS AND COWL TAG BUILD DATE FOR A 68 POST IT.
Not fishing here with extraneous posting. POST ONLY IF YOU OWN A 68 WITH BIRD GLASS.
I am not looking for rhetoric or what if's. The request is simple, direct and very serious.
Simple.
If there is a chance that a certain number of Birds are in a later date category, but most are within a certain period, and there are a few others scattered, I think I can make a solid determination on dates.
Again, I ask, those that only own a 68 WITH BIRD GLASS need reply.
If someone wants to create a post in regards to this one, please do so. I am trying to do some serious inquiring for the benefit of the board. So again, PLEASE excuse yourself if you do not have a 1968 Pontiac Firebird WITH bird glass.
Trying to not be a jerk..But the initial post clearly states that I am looking for 68 Firebird owners WITH bird glass and the cowl tag date for chassis build.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
My Bird is from Dec 67, I'll have to check the actual code but it does have the "Bird Glass" and is the original glass. I'll check and post the actual data when I return home.
I searched for Bird Glass entries on the 1st Gen Registry and found 23 entrys with the box checked: 06B, 05C, 11C, 11E, 11E, 12A, 12B, 12C, 01B, 03C, 06D, 06C, 12C, 11C, 11D, 11E, 11E, 12A, 12A, 05D, 07A, 07D, 11C.
You see that most are in the first run..earliest is 3rd week November. 15 within a 6 week run out of 23. 1 in January 1 in February 1 in March 1 in May 3 in June 2 in July
Now for the Van Nuys and Lordstown breakdown.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
I can and will create a database for this topic, to make patterns easy to detect.
I do not need or want VINs. Body tag info as above including plant code, plus string of billing history codes separated by commas (i.e. 342, 544, 712). Also whether PPG or LOF glass.
email to yellowbird@thefirstgensite.com.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
I must have got Banshees curiosity piqued earlier lmao. I climbed up in the attic to check whether its PPG or LOF but couldnt tell without a major re-organizing session lol. But it DOES look tinted, if that helps. Anyways, heres my info...
11C (3rd week of Nov) ST 68-22437 LOR 13508 261 K-K
Yea, you got me thinking... The 68 is a 12C car with Bird Glass and I have always heard conflicting stories on where, when, why, how..regarding the glass.
As long as everyone provides accurate informationa and footnotes on door replacement, glass replacement or any other variable, the data would be a great reference.
After Vik told me that early 68 HO's may not have long branch manifolds until later on in production did I get to thinking about that and Bird glass.
Jim C sent me some good info that needs to be broken down.
I don't expect any ground breaking revelation out of this, but would be great to document and further the exploration of how our cars were built 40 years ago. The more we pry and obtain now, the easier it will be. Soon, these cars may be changed hands too many times to get any accurate information from.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
Over the years and as lately as a year ago, I have been installing bird glass in many 1968 cars that never came with it...I see bird glass for sale real cheap and i buy it just in case I want to install it in other cars I might own...In fact one of the 68's I bought recently had bird glass in the car as the previous owner was going to do the same swap....Has anyone tried to find out how many "bird glass" cars have factory tinted glass as well ?
One brand of glass had a curved bottom (inside the door), this is the later style common with '69. Earlier glass has a flat bottom. I'm not sure which is which brand...but it can help in determining if glass was replaced at a later date.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Both my 68's have the bird glass, one coupe, one vert, unfortunaly I didn't see this post until this morning, no cowl info with me. But both are LOR I believe. I'm gone until the 19th after today. Maybe I'll remember to look it up when I get back.
Wanting a Custom fit in an off the rack world.
I don't have time for a job, I just need the money.
My 68 as far as I know did not have bird glass, at least when I got it and assuming both windows were not replaced which is doubtfull. I have since installed bird glass however. Would it help the database for my date/#'s? I assume so and will post em when i get home.
Tom, I don't mean to throw a spanner in the works. I was told at the first T/A Nationals I attended, there use to be a gent that offered to etch the bird on the glass of your car for a nominal fee. He offered the 1st bird and the screaming chicken for the 2nd gen and up. I guess date codes on the glass would give a better picture of the info your after?
Who has bird glass handy, in a climate that is above freezing?
Take a spray bottle of water and mist the bird on both sides of the glass. Does it change its appearance? If so, etching. If not, silk screen. I do not believe the original was etched. I think it was marked with the same process as the date codes...silk screening.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
That's a silk screened bird. The photos are not the greatest, but good enough to show how clean the image is.
If original, the photos don't show it well, the edges of all the white/black should be very sharp and clean.
Chemically etched or sandblasted will feel eroded, be duller gray in color, and will gray more when wet. Reproduction painted or screened will not be as perfect as factory.
Decals are decals...you can find the edges.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Vicky, I was just thinking it would help determine blocks of time that bird glass was not installed, effectively narrowing down the block(s) of time it was.
Terry has a set i believe.I'll see if i can come up with an email i replied to with the info on a set i had sold.I'll also check my pictures and see if i took a pic of the codes.
David
http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=571 If i don't get this car back on the road soon i'm gonna go postal! On a quest for FGF knowledge 1968 Pontiac Firebird Convertible 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass "S" Convertible *Sold*
Could not find any info i had in my files.I have the pictures but no way to enlarge them enough to see them.I should have taken the trim tag off the car i stripped them from I sold them to a gentleman in Tiverton,Ontario ? i think.I wonder if he is on this site (i believe i directed him here)and if he had yet to install them as he mention his car was in pieces in his basement.
David
http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=571 If i don't get this car back on the road soon i'm gonna go postal! On a quest for FGF knowledge 1968 Pontiac Firebird Convertible 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass "S" Convertible *Sold*
I have one still out of mine but the only other marking i can find is "Safety Flo-light Solid Tempered" and it is pretty light/hard to see. It's def. a silkscreened baked bird and am confident it is original.
Took some pictures before I disassembled my windows for replating the door window plate and roller set (then discovered a complete door glass mounting plate and hardware set at Rick´s First Generation...). Other than the screaming chicken I haven´t noticed any other markings but I can controll them next week for a second time...
Ya, mine is flat on the bottom. I also discovered a heavy scratch in it where it evidently rubbed against something, and its right where the code is. But I can see this much.... Soft Ray Safety PPG Flow AS-2 Solid Tempered M27.8
here is the info off of a set of bird glass i have for sale.PPG SAFETY FLO-LITE AS2 26107 SOLID TEMPERED M208. Do not know any thing about the car they came from hope it helps. I will get the info off of my car it has bird glass and is original,will post it later.
here is the info off of my 68. 05A 68-22637 LOR 20460 255 D-5. window info with bird glass tinted. soft ray AS2 26117 M278. hope that is what you needed.
The "add it where it isn't, because it's cool" attitude is exactly why a project like this needs to be done.
I've already drawn a couple of conclusions from the sampling so far that surprise me. And with enough data, those cars that have had the glass added should be able to be filtered out.
Keep it coming!
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
The "add it where it isn't, because it's cool" attitude is exactly why a project like this needs to be done.
I've already drawn a couple of conclusions from the sampling so far that surprise me. And with enough data, those cars that have had the glass added should be able to be filtered out.
Keep it coming!
Vikki I am sure you are aware that Factory Options are added to these cars all the time...Yes bird glass is cool...How do you expect to determine where the bird glass ORIGINALY came from I personally think GM used a different manufacturer for a short period of time and they could have also made Camaro glass at the same time for GM and they (the manufacturer) put the bird in the glass for their reference. Your thoughts on this?
Not to worry, the glass has characteristics and codes that can potentially stand out as not original.
Of course options are added to cars that did not have them, and removed from cars that did. PHS can filter those. Glass with an emblem does not appear on the Billing History, so it must be discovered through other means.
Both of those theories are unworkable.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Vikki the "where did bird glass come from" is a question that has never been answered before.....I think it will be very hard to find out...BUT good luck.
Thanks for the info..just what we need. I'll have my Bird glass information tomorrow, as well as a spare set that came from my friends 68 with PHS and cowl tag dates.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
Ahhhh, so that giant scratch on my drivers side glass is covering the 5-digit code. If I get the passenger side down and get it, will it be the same code?
Please submit glass codes here, bird glass or not. Please indicate whether or not this is bird glass with the appropriate button. http://thefirstgensite.com/birdglass.htm
Thank you.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
This track as quoted by banshee---"Not fishing here with extraneous posting. POST ONLY IF YOU OWN A 68 WITH BIRD GLASS". Now you change it to either bird glass or not??? And Jim and I get called names for "changing" his post? Vikki, you get what I mean.
Looks like this post is way off topic right now, we're freakin splitting hairs here.
Vikki NOW has the vehicle to record the data (GREAT), Banshee perhaps could have done a better job of highlighting the criteria, and a few of us (myself included) probably strayed from the intended intent.
Read your recent post...thanks Vikki, normally in analyses like this if you include the "non-event" times, one can get a clearer picture of the start and stop of "event" times....that was all I was suggesting earlier on.
I agree it may help. When doing manual data entry/tabulation it would have merely been additional workload; with the form it's no more effort to compare with and without codes.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
My request was simple..1968 Firebird owners with a cowl tag date.
I wanted to determine what chassis build dates from Fisher from the Van Nuys Plant ot the Lordstown plant had Bird Glass. I simply asked for 1968 Firebird owners WITH a (verifiable) current cowl tag (owned) so that we could work on something new here. Nothing else, no what if's, no I did this, I had that. I simply didn't request this.
Initially this was for simplistic reference and perhaps some education. I asked nicely, directly and very keenly, two simple requests.
Yes, I was sort of broad, but that is where creative criticism evolves through the use of PM's. If there is something better, something more conclusive, by all means, speak up.
I fail to see the necessity of obliging evasive requests by others, then to be offended by the requestors.
I have permanently blocked those users which I feel detract from our purpose. I also did this because I feel my attitude towards helping people and my overall impression from others influence has wained due to continual fencing on irrelevant jargon which has detracted myself and others from thoroughly enjoying this site with criticism. I refuse to lower myself any longer. Yes, I made some comments, but those comments would not have been made if the offending parties had complied with the request and obliged reciprocally, avoidance or adherance to the subject matter.
I apologize profusely if I offended anyone, detracted from the enjoyment of the site with my harsh comments and know those that call me regularly know who and what I am and can see past my mistakes.
On with the Bird Glass!
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
I, and I will assume others here, may only have some of the data being asked for in the fields within the survey (eg., flat or curved bottom). Will some data be of any value or is it to be all or none?
Want to make sure that by putting in only some I'm not diluting the results.
Thanks...
Mark
68 Firebird 350 auto (sold) 70 Trans Am RAIII 400 4-speed (sold) 2011 Challenger SRT8 IE392 6-speed (sold) 2017 Challenger Hellcat 1966 Dodge Coronet 440
Provide what you know. The only caveat is that if you know the bird glass is not original to your car, it's not necessary to plug in the body tag info or PHS info.
If entering original bird glass or original non-bird glass, all the data is relevant.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Vikki i also have bird glass and mine is a Cammer convertable. Freaking to cold and too much snow to get the #'s for ya. Hopefully will warm up this weekend to get out ther. Ill let ya know. Daren
Just checked my original car glass once again concerning other markings in addition to the info I already have posted:
Quote
68 Bird with bird glass 03B 17543 68-22637 259 LOR F-F (now painted Mayfair Maize)
Have to state that there´s absolutely no other marking neither on the front side, nor the rear side glass. Nothing that looks like "PPG" or "Solid tempered". But then again my car shows the second design glass - as Vikki stated, will say the one with the curved bottom. Hope that helps...
The code is in the glass just behind the door lock button. Sometimes it is very faint and a light will be needed to catch it from the inside, the letters will be reversed.
It can be very hard to see!
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Ya, its VERY hard to see on mine. It took a few minutes to even find it, and I had to use a light catching it just right to be able to read it. Its roughly 1 3/4" from the back and 7" from the bottom, Thomas.
For the curved bottom, is this the edge being discussed or the last couple inches of the glass which is curved?
Geoff,
The glass is curved forward 1.5" from the rear window track mount to the forward edge of the forward 1.5" mount. The length of the curve between those two points, minus 1.5" and 1,5" is 24" with a maximum curve depth of 3.5" at 11.5" from the forward edge over the 24" span.
All my glass is dated 11 of 67 flat and curved edge. 3 complete sets of Bird glass.
Last edited by Banshee; 03/17/0705:57 PM. Reason: 67 not 68
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
The glass has an etched feel on the inside. Here are pictures.
07D with bird glass Trim 59 - Verdoro green - black int. and black conv. top options: 343 - 350cid 352 - auto trans 472 - console 501 - power steering 502 - power brakes 544 - power conv. top 551 - power windows 554 - custom trim TMD - wsw F70x14 tires
I have a 68 conv.built 3rd week of oct. I wrote to P.H.S. to get all the info.It came with tinted glass on windshield only.It has no bird glass .It also has standard interior.The odd thing is it also came with front disc brakes but they are not dual piston they are single.I figure because or the lateness of the year it ended up with 69 brakes.
the etched bird glass will also fit in the 69.heehehheheeehe
I know, once I contemplated installing them ,but then it dawned on me that it would never be seen , my top and windows are always down , unless I get caught in the rain , and then nobody notices anyway....
LOL, I know, I put the bird glass in, and I never see it....at least it will be pristine when I do raise the windows, once this year for 30 minutes at 60mph....even stays down in the garage...
Sorry, I didn't read through all 12 pages. This is what I had found out when I was researching what looked to be an incorrect window in my 1968. I was a noobie at the time and still am compared to most on this board. My drivers window at a (astro air) logo on it. I thought this was for Camaros only so I checked into it. They stopped making the astro air window in early 68 due to concerns of it being in the way of the side mirror. It might interfere with what you could see in the mirror. They also stopped putting the silver/aluminum wiper arms and went to black with the concern of glare going into the drivers eyes. I'm not sure if this will help or if it has already been mentioned.
Sorry to interupt the conversation, but were any conclusions ever drawn. I went through the thread but didn't see any.
1968 400 Coupe, verdoro green, black vinyl top 1968 400 Convertible, verdoro green, black top 1971 Trans Am, cameo white, auto 1970 Buick Skylark Custom Convertible 350-4(driver)
I don't have them in front of me at the moment, but ALL pieces of bird glass were manufactured in one plant, in a limited date code range Oct-Dec 1967. Both tinted and clear glass were made, and this glass was installed primarily in Lordstown cars built 11/67-mid 01/68.
The glass found in later cars and earlier cars still bears date codes from this range of dates, and is virtually guaranteed to have been installed at some point in the car's post-delivery history.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Excellent, thanks for sharing the results. Definitely helps me decide what to do with my car as it was built in Lordstown in May(05D).
1968 400 Coupe, verdoro green, black vinyl top 1968 400 Convertible, verdoro green, black top 1971 Trans Am, cameo white, auto 1970 Buick Skylark Custom Convertible 350-4(driver)
Can anyone help me out with a code on the 1967 firebird build tag I have a code that is W-2L* can anyone tell me what this means? The car was the special color o-o produced in I think the autumn of that year. Thank you
1st Group (digit not shown)(W) W .... Soft-ray Tinted Glass (Windshield Only) 2nd Group(2L) L .... 4-spd Manual Transmission Floor Shift
Color is Coronado Gold which should be a spring color only. The complete data off the tag would help.
1968 400 Coupe, verdoro green, black vinyl top 1968 400 Convertible, verdoro green, black top 1971 Trans Am, cameo white, auto 1970 Buick Skylark Custom Convertible 350-4(driver)
My 68 has a date code 11D. It was started 11-67.Lordstown and does have the bird glass. It is a verdoro green Q2, convertable, 4 sp HO. delux interior. 59, console. prod. # on the tag is 2138 Don,t know what else would help.
My 68 is date code 05D and has Bird glass. LOR #7928
400 HO auto, Air, vert, ps,pt,pw
See prior page.
1968 400 Coupe, verdoro green, black vinyl top 1968 400 Convertible, verdoro green, black top 1971 Trans Am, cameo white, auto 1970 Buick Skylark Custom Convertible 350-4(driver)
I have been doing some research on this glass...as far as plant codes, dates..thicknesses...etc.
For those of you who have Bird glass, please post the following.
Date of your build found on cowl tag.
Found on the glass is etching denoting origin/plant of manufacture, date, thickness. Will be found etched on side.
Also include front, back quarter window supplier/manufacturer information. Include if you have clear or tinted, or tinted windshield only. This information can be found on the PHS if you have it.
Example
SAFETY FLO-LITE AS-2 27-117 SOLID TEMPERED M20.6
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
This topic has come up on facebook first generation firebirds https://www.facebook.com/groups/161277239570/user/100024674076842 and I am wondering if there was any more info on the subject other than what you found to this date of your post. I wondered many years ago why my early 68 11A did not have the bird glass and what I found out is similar to your conclusion is that they did not start to install the Bird glass until second to third week of Nov 67 Thanks in advance Chris.H.
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