Since the original disc brakes gathered a hefty $825 on ebay, I can now order the C4/C5 hybrid brake kit from Touring Classics (www.touring-classics.com).

Has anyone used this kit?

If I am the first, I will post info as I get it. I already have drum spindles and hubs. I need to turn the hubs down to fit behind the new rotor. I also need to surface the face of the drum spindle to accept the bracket. These should be small hurdles. Everything else is advertised to bolt right up.

Parts have been ordered. They said it will take about 3 weeks to get them out. The good news is that I don't have to machine the spindles. They have brackets for both the disc and drum spindles.

That is good news. Should save $75 or more at the machine shop. Unless you have your own milling machine.

I thought it was the hubs that had to be machined for the C5 rotor? I am going with TC or www.kore3.com, which ever comes up with a rear brake kit first.

Yes, it is the hubs that have to be machined. Daryl, there may be a problem using the Pontiac hubs. According to Touring Classics, some have a different offset. I checked my stock hubs and they would not work so I found a set of hubs from a 68 Camaro. I did not use the Touring Classics front kit (I do have their loaded calipers)but I am using their rear kit.
You can get all of the parts and save a lot of money. With all new parts, including master cylinder and Stainless Steel braided lines I have just over $500

I forgot about the offset hubs. I believe that is how Pontiac accomplished a wider track. They're about 3/8" deeper than the Camaro hub IIRC.

Thanks guys. I have the Camaro hubs. Left over from one of my earlier F-bodies. I spoke to them aobut the rear brake kit and they figured by the end of March they would have the brackets ready for the Pontiac axles.

Kingbird, do you have a Chevy axle?

yes,I do. I have an 8.5 posi out if a 72 Nova. Quenton currently has my original rear.

Daryl,

Would you mind measuring the depth of the Camaro hub? I already bought my wheels so I want to know what the difference is so I can see if my backspacing will be a problem.

Thanks,

John, I have an extra set here. I can measure it for you, just tell me what you want OR you can go to http://www.touring-classics.com/drum%20hub.htm

The link above has an excellent photo of the hub. If you need more info, let me know and I will get it for you.

Daryl,

Thanks, I'm curious to know the difference in the measurements (as taken like the picture on the Touring Classics site) between the Firebird and Camaro hubs so I will know how much it would affect the back spacing of my rims. Thanks,

I'm interested to hear this too. I thought they were the same.

The Pontiac hubs are 2 5/8" and the Chevy hubs are 2 3/8" if you measure them like the link from Touring Classics. The wierd thing is that not all Firebirds came with the larger offset. I always thought it had something to do with the Wide Track. I think the rear is also 1" wider than a Camaro but I could be wrong.

Thanks kingbird, I was figuring they would be about 3/8" apart from my own measurements. My '67 rear is indeed, 1" wider than stock based on my own careful measurements.

John - I forgot my camera when I went to work on my car today. But I did take a measurement for you. Kingbird has described the differences in the hubs. As far as mounting, the Camaro hub is 3-3/8" from the face of the upper spindle mount, to the outside face of the hub (where the drum would contact). HOpe that helps.

Daryl,

I think that will help along with kingbird's info. It gives me two independent points of reference to go by.

Thanks,

Alright, finally got my parts and enough time to swap the brakes. First I powdercoated the calipers, brackets, master cylinder, and the rotors. The swap was simple. I haven't plumbed the system yet, but I have all the brake parts mounted. I did have to hit one spot on the bracket with the grinder. It may be due to the powdercoat on the spindle. It just need a bit more clearance for the bolts to line up. All in all, I am extremely happy with the parts and the service from Touring Classics.

Below is a link to some pics. Sorry they are in a random order. And before I take heat, those are temporary wheels.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/daryl_keys/album?.dir=/d75dre2

Looks good. It will be interesting to hear how they work too.

Me too - this is on my to do list.

They sure look like they will stand you on your nose!

Yeah, I will get the set for the rear as soon as they are done designing the bracket. They already have the brackets for the chevy axles, but not the BOP axles yet. They hope to have them by mid March. That will give it a more balanced feel...and look.

Howdy
What master size are you using?
Manual or power?

Touring classics recomended the 1" bore. I am running an 8" dual diaphram booster for the time being. I have a hydroboost on the shelf. They reccomended an 1 1/8" with the hydroboost.

I have completed the conversion and things look great...however, I am having a hard time with the function side of things. I have a real long travel on the brake pedal. The master is good. If I put plugs in the master, the pedal is rock hard and doesn't slip. I have adjsuted the rear brakes and they are working fine. I have bled the system on multiple occasions with a power bleeder and the old fashioned way. I have checked push rod length a dozen times. For S&G's I extened the push rod and the brakes worked great. Excellent pedal feel. Stop on a dime. Except that they drag (as you would expect). This however, told me that everything in the hydraulic system is working. I will break the system down one more time. If that doesn't improve, I will try the 1-1/8" master. It seems that I am not moving enough fluid with the current stroke of the pedal.

Daryl, I had the same issues.
Do you have the deep or the shallow GM master? If you have the deep you may want to try the shallow type. That's what fixed my problems

when i did this swap on a 68 firebird that i had, i ended up using a 79 firebird master and booster and they worked great. so i plan on doin that again when i do the swap on my new 67. but alls i can say is wow on how well they work, and i left the stock drums on the rear.

That would make sense because my 79 has a higher volume master cylinder due to the four calipers.

The master cylinder is from a C3 corvett disk/disk. It came with the kit. It has the deep push rod hole, but I have a booster with an adjustable push rod. I have tried it at a 1/16" clearance and also at 0.0" clearance.

The 1-1/8" master that I have has the shallow push rod.

Is there a difference in the volume displaced between a deep or shallow master (assuming same size bore)? I would think not, but am not sure, that's why I'm asking.

Arron,

when you switched master cylinders, was the bore diamater the same?

You already eliminated the push rod as the problem when you plugged the master cylinder and got a rock hard pedal. I would try plugging just the front and then just the back and see what happens.

I have done that with the plugs breaking the sytem down into front and rear. I just can't get enough brake in the distance of the pedal travel.

That's why I say I will do it one more time this weekend, and then I am swithcing to the 1-1/8 bore. My hope is to move more fluid with the same pedal stroke since I know that if I had more stroke (like the over adjusted push rod) then it stops great.

The other royal PITA is that I am using a dual diaphram booster that is not for a GM vehicle. It is an open booster type where the master is sealed to the booster with an O-ring. So everytime I pull the master, I need to re-seal with silicone.

Yes, I went from a 1" to a 1 1/8" with the hydraboost unit. I think it was from a 70's corvette

I am having this problem with the vacuum booster. I haven't even started with the hydrobooster.

Alright, everyhting is finally working as designed on the brake kit. I have solid pedal feel. I have normal travel in the brake pedal to activate the brakes. I have good vacuum assist. The rear prop valve is sort of adjusted to the point where the rears don't lock on a panic stop. However, I am not thrilled about the pedal feel. I really have to exert a lot of force to activate the brakes. Not like losing vacuum, but a heavy feel. Would I want a bigger or smaller bore master cylinder to get a "lighter" feel?

You would think that it would be an even trade off between pedal travel and effort. So, more travel to get brakes would give you less effort. Effort X Distance = Total power exerted. With this theory you would think that a smaller bore would give you less effort and more pedal travel.

You're theory makes sense to me. I have plenty of travel left to give. I will search for a smaller bore master.

Smaller bore will yield less effort but more travel. Which hole in the pedal are you using? Try the upper if you're currently using the lower.

I am using the lower.

Using the upper will decrease pedal ratio, which will decrease master cylinder piston stroke (for the same length of pedal travel) which will decrease the volume of fluid "forced" through the lines for the same pedal travel...resulting in lower effort.

Is that what you had in mind Hammered? Sometimes I have to break the system down to understand how changes will react.