And the great recall of the Firestone 500's way back when.... Exerpt; The company will be obliged to recall as many as 7.5 million of the tires, primarily those produced between March 1975 and May 1976. In addition to the 500s, the recall includes similar tires sold as original equipment on General Motors cars and those marketed under other brand names, notably Montgomery Ward's Grappler 8000 and Super Shell Steel Radial. Firestone will have to replace them with its new and presumably improved 721 radials. It has also agreed to offer 50% discounts on the new tires to anybody who trades in a Firestone 500 model that was produced before March 1975.
So they gave you 721's and then THEY got recalled too.
We had those on a '75 Pontiac Ventura. Four of them shredded, one at a time and replaced under the pro-rata value as they failed. I had a stack of receipts and a real dislike for Firestone by the time they issued the recall. When the recall happened, I sent the entire stack of them to Firestone and ended up getting all my costs reimbursed. Unfortunately I didn't get the day lost on a vacation or the cost of the aggrevation of changing tires on the side of roads as they shredded.
I do not recall Goodyear raised letter Polyglas as OEM for the '68 Firebirds. I started buying them about '70 as replacements to the original Nylon Radials that came on my '68 and I believe one set of redlines which were my first replacemnts in '69. The tires wore out very fast then. I can check my records but I believe I was eating tires at a rate of every 15-20k. It was somewhat confused because I ran snow tires each winter.
Jim did you see the link that Vikki posted?...It stated Along with the above changes and the addition of the Van Nuys, California plant on March 4th, a few more changes were made including the addition of a four-way power bucket seat, the midyear addition of the Goodyear Polyglas tire, the addition of an optional new Power-Flex fan on all V-8s without air conditioning, the deletion of the heater delete, and the deletion of the California emissions equipment.
Thanks. Go with that then. I didn't read through all the pages of posts. I'm just speed-browsing the forum from where I am right now. I just have gone mostly on what I remember back 39+ years ago.
yes me too til I found that article on that ram air car...BTW the pricing and ordering info you posted is dated February 20,1968 and the Goodyear tires were added half way thru the year.
I read the articles and the options lists for both the '68 and '69, and only F-70's are listed, not G-70's. If the G-70 was a mid-year change, then it should have been offered on the '69 but obviously it wasn't.
Also, the '69 got the 14x7 wheels but still had the F-70s. Seems very doubtful that Pontiac would put a wider tire on a narrower (14x6) rim in '68 but not use it on the new wider rim in '69. The AMA specs list the F-70 Polyglas for '69.
all I remember was my 68 had redlines....well, also remember drinking some "Harvey Wallbangers"...just the fax!
Bad timing Bjorn. You came in right when JimC and Brent proved John wrong. That 68 sales manual is the clincher. The link Vikki put up isn't specific enough(no size) to come anywhere near proof.
John's Quote; AHH SO I am right...That car was too original not to be correct.
Facts...I just love Facts...and I quote..... "Along with the above changes and the addition of the Van Nuys, California plant on March 4th, a few more changes were made including the addition of a four-way power bucket seat, the midyear addition of the Goodyear Polyglas tire,"
Facts??? Do you know where this was cut and pasted from? I would think an order form is 'facts'. Just like magazine articles aren't facts either. You are reaching..... Even if it is true it doesn't say a size or even white letter.
Here are your facts; No G-70 14 tires in Feb 68 because you can see that from the order form. No G-70 14 tires in 69 because you can see that from the option list. Therefore, No G-70 14 tires installed at the factory on first gen Firebirds. So those tires couldn't be the factory originals now could they????
Obviously, we need someone to have an actual Pontiac bulletin showing the mid-year addition of Goodyear Polyglas white letters on the 68 Firebirds. I'm assuming that the author of that link provided earlier has proof.
If the Goodyears were available mid-year on the 68's, it wasn't in the original sales album, or the ordering form, that the dealers had. Therefore it must have been a Pontiac bulletin announcing the availability of the Goodyears.
As a sidenote, the link provided doesn't say anything about "white letter" Goodyear Polyglas, just "Goodyear Polyglas". The Goodyear Polyglas tires were produced in a 3/8" inch white line stripe. The Goodyear Polyglas GT was the white letter version.
I believe I have seen white stripe tires on 68 Firebirds in an old original road test, but I have never seen the white letter Polyglas GT's on a 68.
JIm you say " Facts??? Do you know where this was cut and pasted from?"... It was cut and pasted from this site...Jim it's real easy to do...Just drag your mouse onto the link Vikki provided and push!...LOL..it takes you to the info we all were looking for actually the facts....... I would think an order form is 'facts'......It is untill after the adddition of the Goodyears at mid year and like I stated prior the order form was printed in February....Jim, you have a nice day.
JIm you say " Facts??? Do you know where this was cut and pasted from?"... It was cut and pasted from this site...Jim it's real easy to do...Just drag your mouse onto the link Vikki provided and push!...LOL..it takes you to the info we all were looking for actually the facts....... I would think an order form is 'facts'......It is untill after the adddition of the Goodyears at mid year and like I stated prior the order form was printed in February....Jim, you have a nice day.
Conclusion. No G's, no white letters. It took 10 pages but we are there! I really should have dug out the 69 order form right away to prove it but what fun would that have been?
Jim you are wrong....Sorry but you are......Also, Stealthbird, you state..."As a sidenote, the link provided doesn't say anything about "white letter" Goodyear Polyglas, just "Goodyear Polyglas". The Goodyear Polyglas tires were produced in a 3/8" inch white line stripe. The Goodyear Polyglas GT was the white letter version. ....If you look at the picture that Jim provided the car in question has raised white letter tires that only say GoodYear Polglas...They do not say GT on them so they where correct....Also I do not think I ever saw a Goodyear polyglas 70 series in a white wall......none the less, I was right that 68's came with RWL tires, As that is all my post was about...Thanks for the Info Vikki AGAIN you are the best!...I am now done with this, I know that will break your heart Jim.
Just the facts. Not on the order form for 69 so not available for late 68 either. Here's what you could get in 69; P58 7.35 x 14 White - w/341 only BB P65 7.75 x 14 Black - opt. 341 CA P62 7.75 x 14 White - w/342, 343, 344 only CB PX5 F78 x 14 Black - Fiberglass - N.A. 400 GF PX6 F78 x 14 White - Fiberglass - N.A. 400 GR PX3 E70 x 14 Red - Wide Oval - w/341 only HC PX2 E70 x 14 White - Wide Oval - w/341 only HD PL6 E70 x 14 Black - Wide Oval - w/341 only HE PL2 E78 x 14 Black - Fiberglass - w/341 only HF PL3 E78 x 14 White - Fiberglass - w/341 only HR PY6 F70 x 14 Black - Wide Oval - opt 341 ME PW8 F70 x 14 Red - Wide Oval MC PW7 F70 x 14 White - Wide Oval MD PY5 F70 x 14 Red - Wide Oval - Fiberglass MT PY4 F70 x 14 White - Wide Oval - Fiberglass T-A MR
Yes, the original Goodyear Polyglas tires just said "Polyglas" on the sidewall, not Polyglas GT.
I am just looking for the actual Pontiac bulletin that Pontiac would have sent their dealers notifying them that the Goodyear Polyglas tires were now available for the 68 Firebird 400, and that they were white-lettered, not white-striped.
BTW, here's a 1968 ad for Goodyear Polyglas snow tires.
I'm not saying that the white letters were NOT offered, I just wanted to see proof. The author of the statement that Goodyear Polyglas tires became available mid-year 68 must have that document. If the author obtained that info from Gary Witzenberg's "Firebird" book, I'll take that as valid proof too.
Not proof enough that you couldn't order them in 69? Do you think it was just a late 68 thing not continued in 69? Even if there's a document stating there were Goodyears available that doesn't prove anything about what style they were. Also, the car in the picture had G's. No G's on the order form either.....
Jim, remember though that the Goodyear RWL was indeed available on the 69 Trans Am. But of course this option would not have appeared in the original 1969 Firebird sales literature because the Trans Am was a mid-year offering.
The "G's" were definately NOT an offering to my knowledge.
If Pontiac made something available mid-year, they would have sent bulletins to their dealers, and if necessary, provide an updated ordering form showing the new option(s). The 69 Trans Am bulletin listed the new Goodyear RWL tires as an available option, and far as I know, this was the first use of white letters on the Firebird.
Never say never on the RWL on 68's, but I would like to see documentation.
And I was also going to add that the 69 Firebird 400 didn't have RWL either until the Trans Am was available, but it looks like you posted the tire availability already.
If you read the whole thread you will see that I didn't say 'never'. They could have been dealership installed.... But that's not a qualified factory option.
Yes, I read this entire thread, and I saw the reference to dealer installed. This really boils down to what was on the order form, and the Goodyear RWL were not on the order forms.
Agree with StealthBird that corroboration of Geoff's data in FAQ is necessary. Agreed that G70 was never a listed option. Agreed that F70-14 was the appropriate size for a 14 x 6 rim.
Disagree that because it was not on a particular date order form that it was not available. After all, order forms printed for '69 Firebirds built in '68 and early '69 did not offer T/A package, yet there were certainly '69 T/As...or did the lack of that available option on an early sheet make T/A a myth too?
Wide Oval, though a trade name of Firestone, was applied to all 70 and 60 series tires of the time in popular nomenclature. In no place on the order sheet does it specify the brand of tire, nor the specific model. Does anyone have the full set of glovebox warranty papers for a '68? Is there mention of a tire warranty, or a tire warranty card?
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Bad timing Bjorn. You came in right when JimC and Brent proved John wrong. ............
bad timing...welcome to MY world...lol
in 1975 US cars were selling for 2 x the money in Europe, and since I was moving back then I bought 2 Olds Cutlass....was going to double my money ,since no tax on "imported cars as part of "moving property""....and of course as I was ready to move over 18 mo later (You had to have owned them for a year before moving too) gas prices "skyrocketed" (lol, already then..)and my cars didnt get double...but after driving another year with them in Sweden , I got my money back, so I drove for free for 2.5 yrs anyway
Disagree that because it was not on a particular date order form that it was not available. After all, order forms printed for '69 Firebirds built in '68 and early '69 did not offer T/A package, yet there were certainly '69 T/As...or did the lack of that available option on an early sheet make T/A a myth too?
If you apply this logic to the question here then the option would show up for 1969 for Firebirds. It doesn't. Therefore it wasn't a late 68 option like the Trans Am option was a late 69 option.
For those who weren't around to drive these tires in their original form, the Goodyear Polyglas offered a big improvement over the Firestone. The bias plies helped prevent wheel hop and gave a more forgiving ride due to diagonal plies. Chrysler used them as standard equipment by 1970, likely earlier. Ford used them interchangeably on Mustangs 1968-up. GM used them on some Camaros, particularly Z-28. Pontiac likely substituted them for the Firestone when they became available in sufficient quantity. If true, there should be a bulletin somewhere.
Quote:
Circumstantially corroborating that they weren't used on 68 Birds. Mostly useless info though for the question asked.
Coming from the master of distraction himself!
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Sounds like they were the tire of choice for the first replacement from the factory tire. Kind of ironic that it's the same situation these days with GM trucks. Most people take off the Firestones and replace them with Goodyear right quick. A little bigger size too just like the F's to the G's on 1st gen Birds. Hey, why not add the raised white letters too? Recipe; Take the order forms and add a little common sense and you have the answer to the question....
Supply and demand and wholesale pricing factor into the tire choice. When you order your new car, even today it only says the tire size, not the manufacturer and model. You don't find out until you get it. And my in-laws and I had the same model, same year, same package car bought new but had different tire models. Running year change or substitution I don't know, but to the automaker tires are tires.
Goodyear Polyglas were more expensive than the Firestone Wide Oval, so not used on the base model cars; but on performance cars the extra cost also gave a performance boost.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Supply and demand and wholesale pricing factor into the tire choice. When you order your new car, even today it only says the tire size, not the manufacturer and model. You don't find out until you get it. And my in-laws and I had the same model, same year, same package car bought new but had different tire models. Running year change or substitution I don't know, but to the automaker tires are tires.
Goodyear Polyglas were more expensive than the Firestone Wide Oval, so not used on the base model cars; but on performance cars the extra cost also gave a performance boost.
I can attest for this being correct ,at least on Volvos...they came with Dunlop, Michelin and Pirelli from the factory...I used to look for the car that came with Michelins....today I think they come with only Michelins , unless there was a shortage of those at the time of building the cars...then they would mix in other brands,... but as Vikki stated before , BEST way to find out is if someone has the glove box kit with tire warranty left...it would then be "for sure"...
Last edited by Bjorn Sefeldt; 07/25/0702:17 PM. Reason: spelling
but as Vikki stated before , BEST way to find out is if someone has the glove box kit with tire warranty left...it would then be "for sure"...
Not "for sure" because you could have a car that had dealership installed tires and they would also have a warantee on them...... I would think that the only proof would be a PHS document with the information on that.
all cars we sold at our Volvo and Mazda stores had warranty cards/booklets with them for whichever tires we installed....if they were exchanged by us before delivery...
of course that doesnt mean that Pontiac dealers (or all of them ) did the same...
all cars we sold at our Volvo and Mazda stores had warranty cards/booklets with them for whichever tires we installed....if they were exchanged by us before delivery...
of course that doesnt mean that Pontiac dealers (or all of them ) did the same...
Exactly why it would take a PHS for proof that they were factory option tires. Since there's no code for it this getting to be a long shot......
Especially since neither Pontiac nor Chevrolet indicated brand or model of tire on the order sheet, only style and size. Therefore, there would not be a code for Goodyear vs. Firestone.
RWL does have a different code than redline, white stripe, or blackwall. A copy of the billing history will give the tire code.
One new car we bought had a different brand tire on the spare than on the road wheels, as are our space saver spares. It was on a plain rim so it did not matter as it was not going to be rotated.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Remember Roderick's 350 HO with 10K miles that was wrecked? Looking back at the pics the tires were a matched set, white stripe, "Speedway". They still had the nibs on the corner of the sidewalls. Those are Goodyear Speedway.
