Hello, Yeserday I went to the body shop looking to get my trunk pan replaced. I was told that in order to replace it I needed to replace the inner and outer quarters as well as the pan at the same time due to everything tying together. Is this true? I want to start small with the resto and, not do it all at once. What I really want is to replace the springs but, I figured before I ripped them out I would be better off having the trunk done first. Does it relly matter? I'm mechanically inclined but know nothing about body work unfortunatly. Anybody looking for side work in Minnesota or Wisconsin? Thanks and sorry for the long post, but before I go finacially crazy with it I want to make sure I wouldn't be better off selling it first.

get a second opinion. I've never heard of the outer quarters having to be replaced to do a trunk pan.

Pictures would help. If you're replacing with a one-piece floor than removal of a quarter is necessary. If you're just replacing the trunk bottom and most everything else is good, then a patch will work.

Hammered, thats a beautiful car, WOW!!! I would have to say that they do need to be replaced then, because a patch will not do it. I did get another opinion about the car and I was told that the car will never be strong enough for a big block do to having some cancer issues. I've seen cars far worse than mine that have been restored. Replacing all the metal in the back will make the car strong again, will it not? The first shop that gave me a qoute never said anything about strength issues. The second shop was at first trying to get me to sell it to him so I think his sagging theory isn't exactly correct. What do you think? Again, anybody in Minnesota or western Wisconsin looking for some side work? Thanks

If you want opinions on the potential for your car, try posting pics.

Also have in mind a budget for the structural repairs; it's quite common for the cost of repairs to exceed the cost of the shell.

Best way to have a strong car is to start with a rust-free body.

the parts are easly available. its jsut amatter of how nice a car you want and how long you are ging to keep it. I saved my trunk but the inner and lower wells had to be replaced. i did the work myself. and saved myself some serious coin. i couldn't have done it with out some college classes. if you don't have the skills the task is daunting. the real question is what do you want to do with it? show or go? or resale red? no matter what the cost will eventually factor in on your skills.


400 ho 4 spd to go!!! good luck.

Thanks for the replies, I don't need a show car but I would like a to have the car looking nice and straight and be strong enough to last. My body work skills are very nill, i'm mechanically inclined but have no body work experience. Also how does one upload photo's? Thanks

If you have a photobucket or imageshack or yahoo photo or similar photo-sharing account you can upload your pics there, share the album, then paste the link here.

Otherwise, you can upload to certain forums using "File Manager" which is visible under the Post: box as you edit or reply (not Quick Reply)...as I host my own photo server I'm sure there are others who could better help you with those details.

Tried to post a pic, turned out way to big, not very computer savvy I guess. Anyways I will have to get some pics of the underside and the trunk and then post them. Thanks

You definitely have issues. Quarters look heavily mudded already, looks like sag at the back of the rockers/front of rear leaf perches, rockers themselves are suspect as well. Are the doors difficult to open and close?

You will need to find a shop that does welding on older vehicles. Even a shop that works on farm tractors or trucks can be better for structural work than a shop that does newer car collision work only. You need to find a welder who can rebuild your car's supporting framework.

With that much rust evident, trunk floor, shock towers, gas tank supports, and subframe mounts are worthy of detailed inspection.

I think Vikki has said most of it, but to my untrained eye, things do not look good. I have a similar car, with less rust and I already have close to 25K into mine.

You are going to need quarters, fenders and most likely doors from the pictures alone. Unless it is a numbers matching, I would be weary about sinking the kind of cash necessary to make it right.

My $0.02

Doors open rather easily-rockers really didn't look that bad to me, but i'm no expert.

Step back and look at the car just like it is in the photo. Look at the gap at the top rear of the door -- the gap to the quarter panel. Use a stack of corrugated cardboard squares for a measuring device and see how many pieces fit the gap. Do the same on each corner of the door.

Both gaps on the hinge side should be the same. Both gaps on the latch side should be the same.

Do the same on the other side of the car.

If you find that on one or both sides that the bottom gap is wider, particularly at the rear, your car is suffering from a case of belly sag. Belly sag is indicative of weak structure. These convertible bodies were not modified very much to accept the additional weight and loads imparted by removing the roof structure. If compromised by collision or rust damage they can easily become unsafe to drive far sooner than a comparably rusted on bottom coupe.

Look at the pinch welds, the long seams on the bottom where the floor flange is spot welded to the rocker flange. All three layers of steel should be in good condition with no rust.

Look at the floor pan where the front of the rear springs bolt on. Take a screwdriver and jab the floor from the bottom. It should not make an indent.

Look at the rear frame rails where the rear shackles attach.

And look at the floors from inside, with the interior and carpet out.

The floors inside are shot. The front of the springs don't look to bad, the rears are a little rusty and look like they want to unravel from the frame. Where it looks like they want to unravel it doesn't look like its from rust but rather from a beating or stress some point along its life. I guess i'll have to get some pic's.

Isn't there any members who live nearby who could stop by and take a look ?

The fronts of the springs sit in that simple steel pocket, which is held to the floor pans with just a couple of small bolts. Under good conditions that's not a lot of support/attachment for a major drivetrain member. Take away the floor strength and your rear axle is free to slide.

Resize your pics to 640 x 480 and let us see what you have. If you have Windows XP, Microsoft Image Resizer is a good tool to use.

http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler/Install/2/WXP/EN-US/ImageResizerPowertoySetup.exe

Looks like the body shop had it right. And there will always be much more to do once you tear into it. It would be best to get all the metalwork done before you do any mechanical work.

trying the pic thing as we speak. Does 5k seem right for that amount of work? Seems like a lot to me, but i'm no body man. Wish I could find a body man in need of electrical work as i'm an electrician "swap".

What I have found best is to take your best guess as to what a project is going to cost and then double it. I'm telling you it always ends up twice what you think it's going to be. We started with a flawless body and have still dumped over 10k into our Bird and we are not even close to being done...

Maybe I better sell it and step up and pay the cash they want for one thats done. I hate to do that though because I like it even if its junk. I thought I was getting a good deal, looks like I was wrong.

Well, it's all relative to each person. Depends on what you are looking for out of the car etc. There are MANY variables when dealing with an old car. At least that's what I have found. Good luck to you and your project...

I've seen worse...I've owned worse. But I acknowledged them for what they were, an impossible money drain, and capped them.

All you need is a good southwestern shell and put your Firebird onto it.

If you buy one that's "done" you have to look at it twice as hard. It's easy to check out a car where you can see the problems.

Still, without seeing the car, or good photos, there is no way to see what your bodyman saw.

Yellowbird you are a wealth of knowledge both computer and automotive, and I thank you. I will as soon as possible get some pics of the under and try to post them for yours and others opinion. I like this car and want to keep it but if I can't enjoy it without first dumping 20+K into it then she will probably have to go.

mncorey,

you do need a few more pics for us to determine whether or not you could save this without dumping your life savings into it. i dont know the hourly rate of the shops around you but i work for one and was quoted $8000 to back half my bird. this included rear qurters, full trunk pan and inner/outer wheelhouses. i at the time didnt work for them and the guy was charging me double so he wouldnt have to take it on at the time but you can egat an idea of what people will want for the work. id say a price of around $4-6000 would be a good ballpark fugire to get this work done. im doing it right now on mine as a matter of fact. im in the process of building a rotisserie for it as a full frame so i dont have to worry about body shift. if you want your car done well you can do it yourself. many members here havent had training on welding and yet they know the basics. you can learn whatever you want to as most here are good in there respective fields. i am a welder. there are mechanics here,body men, and even electricians. you name it there's people who do it here, you just have to ask and you'll get the info you need or they'll find it for you. if you have more detailed questions on your job let me know. but from the pics i would judge your going to need alot of work!!!! good luck and pm me if you want more of an opinion of what i feel you would need from your above pic!

Thanks and I will try to get better pics.

Just hope yours doesn't look like this:



The car didn't really look ALL that bad...only a little worse than yours. The doors even open and shut (not easily). But this one was not worth saving.

I'm scarred to see it without carpet. I hope it isn't that bad, but you never know till you get into it.

Vikki,
That looks like the car in doing right now. A new one piece floor...some rockers...inners..outers...a mile of wire...what have i gotten myself into?

A money pit of the highest degree.

that would have been good for hot feet in a car you cant turn off the heater totally,,, If I had had that car I wouldnt have had to install my inline shut off....LOL

wow! major rust! however this would be a great challenge. sprints are rare. crazy as it may seem, I would go for it. finding another project would be just like this one so why change? at least you know its going to be rust free when you are done. I would not move it around too much untill you reinforce the body so it would not flex or .(even worse) split in half. I would replace the floors first. anyway, you could use this one to cut you teeth on. you might find a college that teaches body work and enrool the car as their project . the cost would be supplies and they would learn on it. you might have a slight loss of sleep and may take a little longer to .finish but. the cost would be lower and they have supervision so you will get quality. just a thought. god luck


68 400 ho 4sp to go

Hey thanks, I was actually considering the college thing. I meet one of the local Pontiac gods and brought my car to his house. He opened the garage door and there sat a #'s matching frame off restored 1970 GTO ram air judge. Behind that was a 71 I believe. Anyways he told me the sag is only minor on one side only and that the car is much better than I described. After that said, I was very happy. We climed under her and the rockers are excellent and the spring perches look good up front. Rear frame rails weren't to bad and fronts were perfect for her age. Basically quarters, inner and outer wheel houses, partial trunk pan, floor pans and i'll be back in business as far as the rear concerned. That is a lot to deal with but, I expected that. Oh and subframe connectors. I do have pics now I just need to get them on here, I will try with yellowbirds help of down sizing. Also sorry for the never ending paragraph. Corey

It'll take a lot of blasting/grinding/scraping and some panels, and new springs and hardware, but it's certainly savable underneath. Be sure you check your cowl area/windshield pillars for strength before you start sinking money in skins.

mncorey,
Here is a lead on a 68 body shell out here in Cali. I used to live in Milwaukee, so I know what the salt ca do to the cars up there...it ain't pretty. I just picked up a 68 out here for a restore and the only problems are surface rust, a crappy paint job and needs new rubber.
Good luck on your project!

"that would have been good for hot feet in a car you cant turn off the heater totally,,, If I had had that car I wouldnt have had to install my inline shut off....LOL "

....or would be good if your name was Fred Flintstone.....

Yes , Barney , is that you? lol

Originally Posted By: 68blackbird
"that would have been good for hot feet in a car you cant turn off the heater totally,,, If I had had that car I wouldnt have had to install my inline shut off....LOL "

....or would be good if your name was Fred Flintstone.....



Wear a pair of really ,-REALLY big shoes, and use your left foot for 'extra' braking power...