Don't know if anyone caught it but Horsepower is modifying a 69 Firebird, replacing the 350 with a 455. I thought it was cool that their bird started with a bench seat, too.

Then, on MuscleCar, they did a segment on the 69 TA.

About time!

I dig bench seats... especially with 4-speeds.

Yep..they're different (check out my signature pic).

I don't believe the bench seat/4 (or 3) speed manual combo was ever offered for F body.

Anyone?

it was a rerun I have seen it before, but was nice to see it again, On Muscle Car they show cased the 69 TA

Darn, I missed it.

It was the first time I'd seen it. Thought they made a few mistakes on the engine build but I'm not that familiar with the all aluminum block. Didn't look like they were to familiar with Pontiac engines either, but it was cool seeing it.
An all aluminum Pontiac is my next dream engine.

They installed the timing cover without dowl pins. I didn't understand using head bolts, thought they'd stud it since the bottom end was studded.
Even if they didn't do it and the fiber gear does ok without it they should have mentioned the oil hole drilled in the back galley plug.
I don't recall seeing anything on the lower dip stick tube or windage tray, but I might have just missed it. Pan to pump pick up distance is very important to check, especially when changing pans, pumps and pick ups.
He installed the rings by twisting them over the piston tops. Major scratches on the lands doing that. Some people still do it that way, but rings pliers are cheap insurance.
Getting the Rod Chamfer correct is pretty critical as well, they blew through the whole assembly pretty fast.

I've seen them get very basic and elementary on Fords and Chevy's, guess they figure the Pontiac guys already know those details.

They were separate options... so I don't see why you couldn't have the combo. I bet they would have a different shifter arm(for floor shifter).

I saw a little bit of it ...pretty cool. I really liked the air breather they used but I didn't see the vendor on their site for that product.

Hmmm...wouldn't make sense to offer it as a possible combo. I would have thought, if it was offered, it would still be a column shift. I can tell you first-hand that a floor shifter would be too close to the dash and the bench was built to allow a passenger to sit in the middle. A floor shift would be in the way.

The Novas, Chevelles and 442s with bench seats had them(among other models). Funny looking handle to get it in front of the seat and not hit the dash. I owned a 70 Nova with bench seat and 4 speed on the floor. I can't see much difference....

Yep. Many GMs as well as Mopars had such a combo but it always looked to me as if there was a bit more space to accommodate the shifter in those cars.

Maybe it's just me...

A Nova is fairly close to the same. Maybe just a tad more room... It seems to me I've seen a floor shifter with a bench seat in a 1st gen, but I'm not positive.

The bench seat option required a column shifter. You couldn't get a floor shift if you checked off the strato bench seat option. If there's a factory installed floor shifter with the bench seat option, I want to see the docs.

Jim, didn't your Nova's seat have a notch in the center on the seat bottom? I've seen that in the '72-'76 Nova with floor shift.

There's not enough room for a floor shifter with the bench seat, even with one of those funky handles. The A body could be ordered with that configuration.

I didn't realize the order process with a bench seat was column shifter specific. Learn something every day! I assumed it was like the other models where you just got a different style shifter when you ordered them together(bench and floor shift). Is there a seat and shifter package for the 1st gen. Firebird? I do see you can't get a console with the bench.

My nephew had a 67 camaro 4 spd w/bench seat.
Looked pretty cool.
The seat had a curved notch in it.

I guess I don't know what I learned then???? So there is a bench seat with floor shifter???

I suspected no floor shift was available (thanks Tom).

And Poncho presents another question:

Strange how GM would offer the "notched bench/floor shifter" combo for the Camaro only. Was it another case of supply and demand?

I don't see where Mike says if the 1st gen Camaro had the the floor shifter or not? I'm assuming it did with the 'notched seat' remark. If it fits a Camaro, it fits a 'Bird.

Let's get to the bottom of this!

we had a 61 Dodge Lancer (same as Chrysler Valiant) , also had a floor shift and bench...that handle came up and bent over the seat...

I thinking there may be some 'guessing' going on here. I think Mike has actually seen one with a floor shifter??

"guessing?"....me...on my part?

I drove that car for 3 yrs...no pics though

No, not you Bjorn(I quoted wrong post). I'm thinking that Tom and Mark are guessing... And Mike saw/had a 67 Camaro with a bench and floor shifter so we now know it fits. So, why not on/in a Firebird? For me, it's just 1st gen trivia. I like it when my trivia is right!

Yes, pure assumption on my part. And something very worthy to definitively resolve.

Mike has provided the basis for speculation by seeing the combo in a first-gen Camaro.

Maybe a question for PHS?

Since we know it fits. And we know the parts were available. And I don't see where it's 'excluded' on the order form. The possibility does exist. That's all I wanted to know, if the possibility exists. If anyone ever ordered one is a totally different question. From what Tom said I thought there might have been some literature that said they couldn't be ordered together. But since he's off to work now... we will have to wait on his back up reply. Or if anyone else has seen it on paper where they couldn't be ordered together??? There may be an even rarer bench seat for a first gen Bird...one with a notch in it.

I'm not guessing. I know I read it somewhere. For some reason the Firebird bench seat was made with no provision for a floor shifter. There was only one style of bench seat for '67. For '68-9 it could only be ordered with the deluxe interior package, and it could only be ordered with a column shift for auto 2 and 3 spd and 3 spd manual.

Prove me wrong and knock that little battery off my shoulder (Robert Conrad).

What about convertible. Is it true you could not order bench seat in convert.Heard that a while back?

I might be missing something here but I noticed in the 68 sales manual that the bench seat with manual floor shift was an option on the coupe. Should be the 6th and 7th row down on the chart in the link below.

https://firstgenfirebird.org/firebird/1968/sales_manual/N-1.html

There you go Mr. Tuff Guy! Kerry knocked that battery into next week!

I still would like to see proof. I have not seen the Strato bench with floor shift. It's just to darn tight to have a floor shift with a bench without a notch in the bottom. I speak from experience on that note. And I have not seen that app in a first gen 'bird. I'm not eating crow yet.

OK Tom. But now you are 'calling out' the sales manual....

It ain't gospel, well close. There's all kinds of mistakes made in literature. It could be in what I've read to. I'd like to see the app with the docs to prove it. Then you can take your pound of flesh.

I have a '67 PHS packet in hand.
1967 Firebird Colors and Interiors


As for shifter, RPO 784 4 Speed Manual Floor Shift

Nothing about "not with bench seat". Funny thing is that the console has

Standard trans for that 1BBL 6 cyl was 3 speed manual column shift. So did the 326 2bbl and Firebird HO, but those did not have the limitation.

So, it was theoretically possible to have a floor shift/bench seat combo.

I'd think the PHS folks could tell if an FGF was actually produced with such a combo, no? I mean, if someone was willing to pay to find out. I'd consider it. I'm sure it'd be an easy search, as they should have this info in a database by now and would be able to run a query.

PHS does not have all the data in a database. That would be a massive undertaking.

Too bad. There's a job waiting for a contract

Yes, and I am in the right business, place, and time...but not my data to index.

So for now I won't be stricken dead by the Pontiac Gods. I'd love to see a floor shift with the Strato Bench. I would bet it has a notch in the seat bottom, it would have to.

You don't talk about the Strato Bench for the longest while and then, when you do, they pop up everywhere:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-F...bayphotohosting

An 'invention' would be in order... It would be a device that could take information from microfiche automatically. The technology is out there. It just hasn't been adapted to this application. It will be available sometime in the future. There are other applications for it so the need is definitely there...

If the microfiches were consistent from shot to shot in image placement (they are not) and if the characters were all clear (they are not) I could do it with today's technology.

No computer equipment will ever match our eye/brain power to filter data from trash. What we understand is a stray line in the film will cause a computer much aggravation.