Hi all,
I follow this fourum everyday (and the list) and I think it's great. The people here are awsome! I just need to start getting more involved! With that said in the future I plan to convert my 3 spd manual to a 4spd. I need to know the specifics of what I should be looking for (trans wise). This is not a high horse power car (326 2bl) so the high dollar stuff at this point is not needed. This summer I sold my chevelle and picked up a 67 convt firebird that was half put back together, I couldnt pass up the price and the wife loved the car. I know alot about Chevelle's but I'm still in the learning curve on the firebird. I know a lot is the same when it comes to GM but I also know there are some major differences. If someone could give me some idea's that would be great. One more question, can anyone give me a good reason (other than time and money) to keep the 3 spd? Thanks a lot, Nick

Nick, a 3 speed will suit your needs as far as a 2bbl and 326. If you go to a 4 speed, you will be hard pressed to get any pickup in first.. with a 2.52 first gear.

My suggestion?

Swap to a 326HO/350HO setup...IE 65 CC heads, 9.5 CR, 066 grind and a 4bbl carb. Change rear axle to a mid to high 3 gear (POSI optional) and use an M-20 Muncie. M21 is fine too, but expect to add $2-300 just for the 2.20 gear.

If you are at .030 over, you are close to 343CI .060 would be close to a stock bore 350.

If .030, run an 066
If .060, run the 350 HO specs and 65 CC heads.

I know I am rambling...but.

You will be severely dissapointed with investing in a 4 speed swap ($1-1500) without the HP to make it work.

Pick up a Muncie M-20 trans, rebuilt. Pick up a Hurst "Competition Plus" shifter and installation kit.

Install.

Drive.

Q

(Maybe you need the drive shaft from a 4-speed car?)

**** , Tom ... I didn't know you were still up this late. I guess it's true: "The forces of Justice never sleep!"

(Because the forces of Evil stay up all nihgt!)



Q

Q~

Do you not think the lack of HP will make the swap almost benign?

Bring me some heads while in town...

I am ready to build...again.

Took today off...Had to build some RA III's

Still can't F'in spell eh?

Tom ... I have those #99 heads we talked about.

I think if he can find an M20 (with a 2.52 first) he'll pick up a little off the line. Otherwise, yes, you have a good point. Heads and a cam at the least. What's the ratio of the HD 3 speed? Something like 1.78? The deeper first gear of an M20 will feel like an extra two points of compression, but the drop into second will cause him to bog, I think.

Q

Never messed with a 3 speed..Bring the 99's and what you need..me to do.

Honestly though..The head/cam/intake/carb with the Muncie would be best..

Better yet Nick, lets find you a 350 block and large valve heads. Then you can store the 326 away.

I'll find you a 350..and get the heads to 63-65 cc. Hell, I'll even donate some time. You are looking at..$1-1500 for the 4 speed conversion, $6-700 for completely redone heads, roughly $1200 for a rebuilt shortblock with what I mentioned. New everything. Just add carb and dist.

Thanks guy's for the great and fast replies!! Tom your a man after my own heart. My chevelle was modified to high heaven, the wife was hoping to get to drive this by summer, she made me promise to keep the mods to a minimum. Future plans will be more like you are suggesting, but that may be a couple of years away. Maybe I should stick with the 3 speed for now and just start collecting what I want for the futre. I'm in the process of replacing a dash panel right now due to a bad past repair. Then I have the whole interior to freshen up, I've already aquired everything I need for that. Still alot of work to be done before we can even drive it. Thanks, again guy's
oh and the 326 is original with only 65,000 miles

You know ... after thinking about it, there's a great alternative to the M20 for this application. Pick up a Saginaw 4-speed. They are a while lot cheaper, and with your wife driving it, the really deep fist gear will mean less clutch replacements. The 326 doesn't make enough power to break the Saggy, and it's relatively cheap and plentiful.

Also heed Toms suggestions about heads and cam for the future.

Q

Thanks Q,
I was thinking about a saginaw, since I'm a past Chevy guy could you tell me if the saginaws are pretty much interchangable between the BOP's and Chevy's? I'm assuming they are. Is there a configuration that was made that would be better with my aplication (trans gear ratios etc..)? You can Bet I'll take Toms advice in the future, Sounds like he really knows his stuff. I will more than likely pull the 326 later in life and do the good stuff to something with more cubes like was stated earlier. Thanks, Nick

The trannies are totally interchangeable. The only one to avoid is the one that came behind the six-cylinder in Chevy pickups. I think it had such a granny low gear that the shift from 1-2 would be horrible.

I don't know too much about them, other than that they are lighter duty than the Muncie four speeds. They have a steel case, so they tend to be heavier.

You're right about adding inches. Join the "L-list" at the bottome of this page. There's a really cool thread going on about upgrading to larger motors. It's basically about economics. You can invest a lot of money into a 326 or a 350 to get them to haul a**, but that same money into a 455 will get you a motor that will scare the ... well, you know.

My advice ... which you didn't ask for ... is to build a relatively mild big-inch motor, and spend the money on a great paint job. Tom's head/cam/intake/carb choices will let you do exactly that. But MAKE SURE you start with a sound bottom end. I build my motors like Tom does, though our opinions differ slightly when it comes to intakes and cams. But they are just opinions. The best bang for the buck is a motor with tons of torque that you can drive anywhere on pump gas.

Good luck.

Q

I hear ya with the 455, my chevelle was sporting a 454 which I still have in the garage. It's a mild build with a cam that gives it a lot more low end. Sold the car without the motor. Dont worry I have no plans on installing the 454 in the bird. I sure do miss the power though! It'll come back in the future, once my wife drives the bird she'll relize it's no 455. Nick

If you build a 455 you will like it! Even a well built 400 will be no slouch, just use the right heads on the engine you build. In the meantime, find an M20 Muncie, Hurst shifter & installation kit and put 'er in! Any questions on building an engine can be taken care of by Q & Tom. Your existing driveshaft will work no problem.

Steve

The trans ratios that are listed for a 326 2 bbl are 2.54, 1.50, and 1.00. The 4 speed ratios listed for both the 2 bbl and 326 HO are 2.52, 1.88, 1.46, and 1.00. The Saginaw ratios that I have are:
2.54, 1.80, 1.44, and 1.00
3.11, 2.20, 1.47, and 1.00
3.50, 2.48, 1.66, and 1.00
You'll need to decide what it is about the 3 speed that bothers you, and then you can start looking for the right trannie. If you like how the car feels in first gear but don't like the large drop in revs when you shift, then the trannie with the 2.54 first gear ratio should help. If you feel the car needs some help off the line and don't mind a slightly larger rev drop when shifting, then the second trannie would be the choice. If you just want another gear to row, then take your pick.
The one with the 3.11 first gear ratio used to be the easiest one to find, 'cause it was found in Vegas. Now try and find a Vega! :rolleyes:
And the 350 2 bbl out of my 69 is still in the shed, replaced by various levels of 400's and a soon to be completed (I hope) twin turbo OHC six that should match the last 400 in power (about 420hp) but make the car economical enough to drive more often. Save the original engine and find something bigger to play with!

Lots of good info here. Thanks to everyone once again. Cubes are in the future (sometime in the future anyway)LOL. Nick