For (old) Corvettes and Chevelles I recall books containing the VIN ranges by build month. So based on the VIN you could determine what month the car was built - and based on the range in the month # even approximate the car's build date.

Does such a listing exist for Firebirds, or perhaps for Pontiacs in general? Or perhaps the PHS documentation (that I have virtually no knowedge of) makes this point irrelevant. Just curious...

I'd like to share a story where this information came in handy. About 10 years ago I tagged along with a friend who was inspecting for possible purchase a '70 Chevelle SS LS-6. The owner had this car since 1980, and was very complete and original.

The engine block stamp matched the VIN, and the engine code stamp was that of an LS-6. But Chevy also includes a date stamp on the pad - in MMDD format (0305 = March 5, with no year listed). The problem was that the body tag showed a December '69 build date. No way the engine was built 3 months after the body, right? Well in this case the list of VINs and build dates came in handy. The VIN was a March '70 VIN, which then makes sense with the block stamped date.

It's likely that something either happened to this body and it was pulled off the line (or something), or perhaps there was some lag with LS-6 blocks and they all had this issue. I've never "touched" another LS-6 so I can't say. But either way the VIN build month list "saved the day".

Just FYI I can't remember the exact dates from the story above, so they're approximate - the dates have been changed to protect the innocent ;-)

I have a list for '67 Firebirds. If you provide body series and production number off the cowl tag, or body series and build date, or body series and VIN, I can provide a range for the third factor. Or if you provide all three, I can check to see if they are in range.

Never happened. Once a body was started, it was built to completion. There's absolutely no room in an assembly plant to set aside a body for a while and it would cause ripple effects throughout the assembly process.

I've never seen a list like that for Pontiac, but I may be in a position soon to see if I can locate such an item.

Here's the info for Camaros: http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#HowMany

Finding manufacturing logs would be great, but if not then a good approximation can be made by cataloging a LARGE sample of each of the years and gathering all the data. I'd suggest to include the engine unit number and casting date as well.

My '67 list is based on approximately 100 cars. The resolution is a 2-3 week window, or 2000-3000 VIN sequence numbers.

Setting up a database and entry form is not a difficult task. Is anyone interested in participating?

Vikki,

I would help.

Craig

Another likely scenario would be that the engine and VIN were swapped by a previous owner but not the body tag..... That would explain why the engine and VIN match and just not the tag. I would be looking for the other hidden VINs on that body.

That would be my conclusion as well.

Yup, either the VIN and engine were swapped or the tag was swapped.

I think I sent Vikki the CRG database format. We have over 16,000 cars in the db, so the format can handle the data and it allows for useful data searches.

Kurt, with your permission I'll build a mySQL database on that format, with web forms for direct entry and php reporting. Does yours track engine code and engine unit number as well as VIN/body numbers?

This project will rely entirely on the accuracy of the data submitted by contributors.

Yup, there are places to enter engine, trans, and axle data and also RPO data.

The db will take a hit on accuracy and usefulness by self-entry. But it's still much better than no db!
Part of the power of our db is I can search for certain terms and know they will be spelled and formated correctly to find them - Has rear brake valve, VIN on engine pad, etc.

Having it based in Excel and using the autofilter mode makes it a really powerful tool.

Nice thing is that the format is applicable to other car lines, so you can enter big-car and Camaro data from LOS too.

John Schuh and Geoff were working on a Firebird registry a while back, but I am not sure where the project sits at the moment. They have collected billing history, broadcast and other data. It would be great to see that data or at least to have queries available to the public.

The majority of cars will have components that are no longer as ordered or shipped. So the choices are record from the car, or record only from documentation.

Most any db format can be swapped back and forth to any other. A mySQL database can very easily become an Excel file. However, querying in mySQL is a breeze too.