Sorry maybe it is just me, but are these sellers just raising a 100 more questions by trying to beat around the bush with their dumb excuses:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-Pont...=item35a5c04112

"I was told it was a 400 Ram-air car. It has a 350 non-ram air hood on it now"

So what engine does the car have-I know what kind of hood it has.

"the car has 1968 doors without the front window vents, the previous owner liked the full glass look."

Why not just say, we used 68 doors because that's what we had!

NEXT ONE

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Pont...=item2ea9d6f2ca

"*#*#*#**#Our bad we were having debates on the AC, it is not what AC looks like today, but after researching parts it looks like there is factory AC in the car, but we are unsure if it works, my husband has never used it out of all the times he has driven it, he likes to roll down the windows and enjoy the ride. Sorry for any confusion, I know it is frustrating. *#*#*#*#*"

OK these people own this car for 8 years, yes 8 years, but claim they have never, yes never, turned on the AC to see if it works because they like driving with the windows down???? PS, it needs a new heater core

Then they say:

"I can say it has not ever been kept outside or driven in the rain."

But the pictures in the ad are taken outside while it was raining, the car is all wet????


NEXT ONE

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Fire...=item3358683e74

"The original motor in the car is broke engine #9790071 ,1968 YC 400 =290 HP, I do have a 400 engine # 481988, 1971 YS 400= 300 HP that is included with the purchase of this car and is a higher horse powered motor."

OK, so an original 1967 YC motor was in this 1968 Firebird.

"A Big Block, 4 Speed, Posi, BANGIN GEARS !!"

He's got the factory firebird big block YC 4spd motor?

NEXT ONE

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sweet-196...=item1e59a79078

"Orginal pontiac wheels"

Now I know a lot of different cars used the Magnum 500 wheels, mustangs mopars etc, but since when were these original on Firebirds. Maybe I'm not seeing the rims correctly.

that top ad they are calling a 67 is a 68 . true it has no window vents but it has front corning marker lights on the lower valence, and arrow head side marker lights on the quarter panels. those are good signs that its a 68! looks like they do not know what they have been driving? something does not seem right there.
at least the second ad got the year right even if they did not have a compressor for the a/c that they never run.

Yup looks like a 68.. Some people don't know anything about what they drive.. Sometimes thats good, most times it ain't...!

i am not sure if these ebay ads are funny or sad . either people do not know what they have or they are the type that would sale a freezer to a eskimo . the wheels on the last one looks like 1967 olds 442 wheels?

In the third one.... are they confused as to where to put the words "Firebird"?

And I really love the RamAir stickers on air cleaner lids. I've seen this a lot lately on several FGF, GTOs etc. since I have been scouring Ebay this past week...

The only thing I see as being from a 67 are the door panels the upper painted sections of the doors (which much like the rear ashtray opening on the consoles are just covered up by the restyled 68 components and the gas door (could be late 67 into 68 for this) They even have the vent holes in the dash... I guess they drilled them for extra ventilation or better access to the wiring perhaps?

Kind of scary how misinformed people are when they are trying to sell something of this nature? Wow!

I guess these would be considered Darwin eBay ads...

The yellow 68 is interesting though. Notice those mysterious "Ram Air" emblems on the hood? There were several discussions about those die-cast emblems a few years ago as to whether they were factory or not. Some folks said they were original, even had Pontiac part numbers, while someone else said they were made in the 1970's in some guy's garage.

Apparently, someone thought those emblems were original RAII items...someone paid $600.00 for a set off E-Bay.

Even back in the 70's some guys didnt know exactly what year and/or engine they just bought.
But it was faster then mine.
Or course they'd get smoked

Ram Air emblems.
Never saw a factory production.
And no replacements listed in the parts catalog.

I don't think a single emblem on the Yellow one is in the correct place? Oh, wait, the glove box door bird emblem looks like the only one never removed... Yikes! Even the rear spoiler looks like it's mounted crooked?

The first one has staggered shocks and is missing the cowl hidden VIN.

Those Ram Air hood emblems are strange. There was a 68 RAII car in HPP a few years ago with those emblems (the emblems replaced the "400" script), and no one knew where they came from, even HPP stated they were a mystery.

Pontiac Parts Catalog lists (just after the OHC and 350 hood emblems) for 1969 F/8 (Firebird):

9796827 PLATE, hood name (Ram Air) - RH
9796828 PLATE, hood name (Ram Air) - LH

I realize that the term "PLATE" is not an emblem, but does anyone know what these part numbers are?

There was a theory that these emblems may have been produced by Pontiac as a retro-fit to those that bought a Ram Air kit over-the-counter for their 67-69 Birds. The term "Ram Air" was a status symbol back then, and announcing it on your hood was something special. You could take your "400" emblems off and apply Ram Air decals, but then you'd have holes where the "400" emblems were (unlike the GTO's hood), so the theory was that Pontiac made these to replace the 400 emblems as a retro-fit when someone bought a Ram Air kit over-the-counter.

Another theory : On the early 1969 Firebird 400HO's, you had to order the Ram Air Inlet option separately. Those that didn't order the Ram Air Inlet were most likely disappointed when they received their Firebird 400 with a standard air cleaner and closed scoops. If a buyer (or the dealer, trying to make nice) ordered a Ram Air kit for a customer's 1969, could these emblems have been used to replace the 400 hood emblems?

So there was the set on the 68 RAII car in HPP, the E-Bay emblems, and now this yellow 68 has them (although the guy with the yellow 68 obviously didn't know the emblems were supposed to replace the 400 emblems, not in addition to).

Any info would be appreciated. I've been looking for the true story behind these emblems for quite some time. Not trying to stir up anything, just trying to figure out where the heck these die-cast emblems came from.

I sent the owner of the yellow car a message asking him to pull off an emblem to see if there is a part number or not. Maybe he'll do it and we can find out for sure. Looking at the emblem, it sure looks factory to me.

I asked the guy to confirm the hidden vin for me to make sure the car was not a stolen 68 and he told me to get bent.

sounds like they may not be the most honest ! sounds down right crooked !

Thank you LJM.

The emblems are die-cast, and they're in the same script as the "400" emblems. These could have been made in the 70's or 80's, but I've never seen them before until that black RAII car appeared in HPP. And as I mentioned earlier, when a set of these emblems went up on E-Bay, everyone was trying to come up with theories, and someone obviously wanted them. They sold for over $600.00.

If we get a final conclusion, maybe a moderator we can pull segments of this post out and place it in another thread. I have some more pics of the emblems.

9796827-828
Oldest GM Pontiac catalog i have 72. Theres no listing.
Surely they would'nt of been disc by then?
FWIw, all hood name plates are listed as "emblems".
Only "Ram Air" listed are the RAIII and RAIV decals for 69-70 FB's and GTO's.
Same catalog list's the different ornaments.
67-69 exc ra 9777957-958
68-69 ra 9794283-284

Forgot.
My guess a dealer like Royal had them made.
Remember they had thier own "Royal Bobcat" emblems made.

This is from the 1968 book. Just curious what "PLATE, hood name (Ram Air)" means?

I actually have this same engine in my 69' but it is not original. "engine #9790071 ,1968 YC 400 =290 HP"

as best as I can tell this was a big body car option, not the Firebird (i.e. catalina, bonneville, etc..)
Does anyone know for sure though if that engine was offered in the Firebird ??

No offense to any of the sellers but these firebirds just make me glad I restored mine myself....
Other than that I will add that I'm really glad to see pontiac engines in all of them.

Does anyone have a print of this ad? I think those emblems were prototype only, not production. I believe they are shown on this car.

Parts books were published in advance of the cars shipping, as were service manuals. Lots of "errors" and erroneous info in those sources but they are among the best available.

Those were actually red Ram Air stickers (from a GTO) on the hood of that 1969 Trans Am in the magazine ad. And yes, absolutely correct, that was a pre-production car. This same car appeared in a few early road tests, and unfortunately, caused confusion (even to this day) about the stripes, decals, etc. used on production 69 Trans Am's.

Lots of theories about these "Ram Air" die-cast emblems. One thought I had a couple years ago, when these popped up on E-Bay, was along the lines of what Vikki just stated. I thought perhaps they were produced by Pontiac, but never used. Maybe marketing decided that removing the "400" emblems off the hood of a Firebird 400 Ram Air was not a good idea, as the "400" emblem designated the actual model (Firebird 400) not just the engine size. Maybe they were produced, never used, then simply dumped into the parts inventory.

Or....maybe somebody made them in the 1970's or 1980's, and everyone forgot who made them.

Or...maybe a dealership (like Royal) made them in 1967, because Ram Air was cool (no pun intended) at the time.

But if the 1968 Pontiac Parts page I posted above, which shows "PLATE, hood name (Ram Air)" for the Firebird, that would eliminate the possibility of a dealer making those emblems, or anyone else from the 70's or 80's.

The big question is....do these emblems have a part number on the back. That would answer a lot of questions.

There is another pre-production T/A with Ram Air stickers farther forward. These are in the location where 400 emblems would be on a regular 400 car. They appear considerably shorter in length than the decals.

I have the full-sized 2-page magazine ad scanned in, and I can zoom in close. They are definitely stickers, same font as the trunk lid/front fender decals. I can also see in the 69 Trans Am ad, the photo in the upper right corner where they are looking down the hood scoop, that the Ram Air is flat against the scoop, not raised at all. I tried to crop this photo....not sure the resolution is perfect, but I think we can see they are stickers, and they are not slanted forward.

Now these mysterious Ram Air emblems have a forward "slanted" font like the factory "400" hood emblems, and are definitely die cast.

I found that 1968 RAII Firebird article from HPP, it was several years old.

http://highperformancepontiac.automotive...stem/index.html

They specifically mention that the emblems on the hood of this car needed to be researched, and Jim Mattison believed they were aftermarket.

That pretty much comfirms they where GM.
Wow, a part only availible for 3 yrs.

BTY, the 69-70 ram air decals where availible in black, red, and white.
I still have a set of black from around 1985.
Was gon'a put on my 67-400 Tyrol Blue car, but couldnt bring myself to do it.

Those would be for the GTO's.

As for the 'birds, some folks just don't know what they have. They're not doin' the research. I say if ya don't know, don't post it 'till ya can back it up with proof. Or state ya just don't know. Honesty is paramount when selling.